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HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

theregister.com

211–220 of 243 posts

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#211

I’m certain I’m up there in the 1% of users, or close to it, that are writing software daily in terms of consistent prolonged volume of work and work that is actually used by others over the past nearly 20 years based on user activity statistics I’ve collected. I, too, am a fairly, but not immediate early user of GitHub. Despite GitHub’s poor metrics, I am still shipping, because writing software doesn’t require GitH…

„I don’t use any of GitHub’s non-git features, so if you use them you have a problem”

He’s pretty obviously referring to the extreme emotional reaction Hashimoto had, not his choice to use a different git solution

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#212
post #30

I feel like I’m out of the loop, or maybe I’m just not a super GitHub power user, but GitHub does pretty much what I expect and I haven’t had issues with it. All my git commands for GitHub just work and PRs and code reviews are the same as it’s always been. Can someone explain what exactly is so bad now that leaving it entirely to use some new platform, even spinning up your own servers, is a reasonable alternative?

something reliably breaks 7 am PST (sometimes earlier) if you're using anything more than the git command line and sometimes (not too often, true) even the git protocol breaks.

but only on days that end in y.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#213

GitLab isn't much better. The releases ignore serious bugs, but they have unlimited budget to make stupid UI tweaks that offer zero real world improvement.

It's such a shame, I absolutely loved GitLab when I first started using it ~8-9 years ago. Switching to company on GitHub a few years later felt like a huge regression. GitLab had all sorts of little UX niceties and, while there were some rough edges, overall it seemed well thought through.

Since then though, holy cow have things gotten worse. The UX has changed more times than I can count and seems to get worse every time. Rough edges never get fixed, but new ones get introduced all the time. It's hard to think of anything useful that has been added or improved in recent years.

It's such a shame. GitHub is its own mess and I really wish GitLab had made itself a clear superior alternative and eaten their lunch.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#214
post #47
post #34

You gotta admire journalists. Such a one punch sentence that distills the message with a little bit of dramatic flair. got damn, anyone got recommendations on how to write like a journalist ?

Have you tried asking an LLM?

Lol why is this tongue-in-cheek statement being downvoted

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#215
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their stability and reliability has deteriorated significantly. So much so that they stopped posting uptime metrics for a while on their status page and an independent 3rd party created a website just for this: https://mrshu.github.io/github-statuses/ (not my website) According to that website, which unsurprisingly reports a lower number than what Github themselves claim, Github uptime is down to ~86%. And if you wor…

> which unsurprisingly reports a lower number than what Github themselves claim Yes, because it throws all partial outages into one bucket, which is a dumb idea because the bigger a platform becomes with more loosely coupled components the more untainable high uptime number become. Looking through the incidents, a good portion of them are regarding Copilot and Codespaces, two products I couldn't care about less. I do…

Github's own status page seems just as hyperbolic.

The truth likely lies somewhere in the middle.

And not sure how your individual preferences invalidate others' experiences with the platform. To be frank Copilot is likely one of their most visible and in-demand products as it was a very cost-effective way to access frontier models (and are unsurprisingly nerfing usage limits in a month).

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#216
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’ve got it backwards. GitHub is by far the market leader for hosted repositories and maybe for CI too. This is like asking “Why are companies interested in using AWS?” When one firm is so dominant for so long, the question is more like “Why shouldn’t we just use GitHub like 80% of software companies do?” The issues they’ve had are almost all very recent. Very few companies have reevaluated that decision, b…

> I think you’ve got it backwards. GitHub is by far the market leader for hosted repositories Maybe, but I never heard about any company using github for internal projects in my real life. For me it was always to go to for open source projects. Then again it's not a topic that often comes up in my developer circles.

I think I worked at one company that used BitBucket instead of GitHub but GitHub has been the main place for the internal company repos everywhere else I’ve worked. GitHub is quite popular for any sort of git hosting.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#217
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’ve got it backwards. GitHub is by far the market leader for hosted repositories and maybe for CI too. This is like asking “Why are companies interested in using AWS?” When one firm is so dominant for so long, the question is more like “Why shouldn’t we just use GitHub like 80% of software companies do?” The issues they’ve had are almost all very recent. Very few companies have reevaluated that decision, b…

> The issues they’ve had are almost all very recent. It has been bad for at least 18mo, maybe longer? I recall multiple work impacting outages at my previous employer extending back into 2024. Maybe even earlier than that?

In the lifespan of Git and GitHub that’s all very recent.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#218

Nothing is pissing me off more than GitHub's stability going down the tubes RIGHT as work is migrating everything, and I mean everything, from CircleCI to GH. The wildest thing is that Azure Repos/Pipelines was better than this. Their one caveat is also that they are still migrating it to Azure infra, so it's possible that's still in a one foot in one foot out kinda scenario, from what I've heard. But, this isn't ins…

i did the circleci --> github actions migration for my job 1.5 years ago, and things seemed great... at first. at the time, we'd been dealing w/circleci's semi-regular (but thankfully short) outages for over two years, and we were excited to move to a more stable system.

now i'm considering deploying jenkins.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#219
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, have you been part of an org that had to scale orders of magnitude very quickly? Anyone who has been part of that journey knows how painful it really is. A lot of times the systems to fail at all levels, and you have to redesign it from the first principles.

> Serious question, have you been part of an org that had to scale orders of magnitude very quickly? I have, but it depends what you mean. Scenario 1: e-commerce SaaS (think: Amazon but whitelabel, and before CPUs even had AES instructions); Christmas was "fun". Scenario 2: Video Games. The first day is the worst day when it comes to scale. Everything has to be flawless from day 0 and you get no warning as to what ca…

It really, really depends on what you mean. Specifically, it depends on the application and its various compute, I/O and access patterns. Scaling ecommerce and games is well-known by now (e.g. Amazon and Blizzard have been dealing with insane scale for two decades now.) However, anything outside a well-known pattern can be very tricky to scale.

I once worked on a team had to 100x scale a system whose downstream dependencies were various 3rd party APIs and data sources, most of which had no real SLAs to speak of and had extremely high variance in latencies and data transfer patterns. This basically required rearchitecting everything including our clients because the typical transactional request/response access pattern was too tightly coupled, and any hiccup in an external API quickly rippled up through the call-tree and caused outages 3+ services removed from ours. In some cases, the re-architecting went all the way to the UI.

Years later, I led a company-wide effort to optimize our entire user-facing application infrastructure to not fall over from sharply spiking user traffic, touching dozens of services across dozens of teams. We did a brief study and realized there was not a single common solution recommendation (like "tune your caches") we could give that would help all the teams because each one had very different resource usage patterns and hence different bottlenecks. Our approach was basically to farm the task out to each team and say "here are some common metrics to look into and some common issues to look for and some common solutions, get back to us if you need help." We spent a lot of time on the help.

I have no idea what the patterns for GitHub are, but I'll note its much more than just a DB and it has a dependency (Actions) with extremely high variance in latencies and resource usage.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve argued the opposite most of the time in build vs buy. Buy in almost every case unless it’s a real competitive advantage to you. I know developers love to build, but do you think: 1) self-hosting git provides any competitive edge to the business over letting someone manage it? 2) it provides so much value that you’re willing to fund engineers to build, secure, support this on an ongoing basis? I’ve found the answ…

You don't have to 'build' anything. Just spin up a GitLab docker container. Bonus: If you put it behind a VPN, you never have to worry about updating it.

Oh man, what could go wrong.

Edit: to be clear for anyone reading, don’t do this, it’s a really bad idea. You need to patch your stuff, even behind a VPN. If you’re unsure, just google: “examples of security breaches of unpatched software behind VPNs”

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