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HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

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Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#201

Post by bayindirh »

exabrial wrote: post #183

GitLab isn't much better. The releases ignore serious bugs, but they have unlimited budget to make stupid UI tweaks that offer zero real world improvement.

Worse, self-hosted version broke one of the updates by botching a migration and giving no error about it. Installation broke in mysterious and subtle ways, causing us to scratch heads for days.

The next update warned us about the problem, so we ran the repair commands to put things in order again. This is a very small server with ~10 users and ~50 repos at most.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#202

Post by dspillett »

bellowsgulch wrote: post #125

I’m certain I’m up there in the 1% of users, or close to it, that are writing software daily in terms of consistent prolonged volume of work and work that is actually used by others over the past nearly 20 years based on user activity statistics I’ve collected. I, too, am a fairly, but not immediate early user of GitHub. Despite GitHub’s poor metrics, I am still shipping, because writing software doesn’t require GitH…

> because writing software doesn’t require GitHub.

If your workflow doesn't need the features that have had reliability problems over recent times (which includes some of the basic collaborative features), is GitHub even the right tool for your task? If not, then your judgement of others for complaining about the issues is presumptuous to the point of being somewhat obnoxious.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#203

Post by torben-friis »

alexjplant wrote: post #189
torben-friis wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if he wasn’t who he was and you read these comments, you’d think this person had a problem. So, I think he does. Honestly, I thought you were demeaning him to defend GitHub. But after reading the article, it does seem like his emotional reaction is not aligned with the situation. Just saying it openly for others who get the same impression I did. That said, GitHub can be a full time job for many (handling and respon…

No, calling him "disturbed" was entirely out of line. As with everything it's not GitHub per se that is causing him consternation but the loss of what it represents: > “Some people doom scroll social media. I've been doom scrolling GitHub issues since before that was a word,” he admitted. “On vacations I'd have bookmarks of different projects on GitHub I wanted to study. Not just source code, but OSS processes, how o…

>Could you imagine leveling these charges at a visual artist when they complain about a company messing with their favorite pencil? Or a saxophonist when their reed of choice is discontinued? It's petty and reductionist.

If that person is lashing out and hurting people around him as a consequence, then yeah, I'd say that's not healthy. Unless he has a smaller barrier than I do for what he considers lashing out, and just refers to online complains.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#204

Post by plqbfbv »

anilakar wrote: post #42
biglyburrito wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on the other side of the fence. We're just about done migrating from GitHub to GitLab (self-hosted) and it's been refreshing to DGAF about any of the GH outages I read about.

We were on self-hosted Gitlab but after a merger were forced to Github. Navigation feels painful in comparison and basic features such as commit graph are now behind more expensive tiers.

> We were on self-hosted Gitlab but after a merger were forced to Github. Navigation feels painful in comparison and basic features such as commit graph are now behind more expensive tiers.

Same experience here. Add to that that even on Enterprise tier:

- 1 Enterprise : 1 namespace - although you can segment it with Orgs, we were advised not to do it because we're too small (~2k people) (GL: groups, subgroups, sub-subgroups, ...)

- SSH deploy keys are singletons across the entire instance and repo-bound (and Weblate for instance can only use its own key), so you need a service account for that (GL: instance-wide SSH deploy keys that you can activate in specific repos)

- GHCR only really supports classic PATs for authentication ( https://docs.github.com/en/packages/working-with-a-github-pa... - GL: proper deploy keys properly inherited throughout the hierarchy)

So all in all the experience so far is a huge step-down. I really liked pinning commonly accessed pages in the sidebar.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#205

Post by oasisaimlessly »

Esophagus4 wrote: post #148
embedding-shape wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go with the flow, don't rock the boat and use what developers already know, are probably the most cited reasons I've heard. I've tried so many times in the past to argue for self-hosted setup that you fully control if you can afford it, things just get so much smoother and if you're a software development company, you probably want to own the software development workflow E2E so you can actually ship as fast as you w…

I’ve argued the opposite most of the time in build vs buy. Buy in almost every case unless it’s a real competitive advantage to you. I know developers love to build, but do you think: 1) self-hosting git provides any competitive edge to the business over letting someone manage it? 2) it provides so much value that you’re willing to fund engineers to build, secure, support this on an ongoing basis? I’ve found the answ…

You don't have to 'build' anything. Just spin up a GitLab docker container. Bonus: If you put it behind a VPN, you never have to worry about updating it.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#206

Post by motbus3 »

jonfw wrote: post #182
fourseventy wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya but they are owned by freaking microsoft and have billions of dollars and employees to throw at the problem. The outage problems shouldn't be happening period.

Easy to say that! Some problems are legitimately hard to solve though. Github is likely seeing usage patterns that have never been seen before and I bet some of these failure modes are novel If you are at the limits of your architecture you may need to re-write things, and if you are rewriting things you can not arbitrarily speed that up by throwing dollars at it.

It is not like MS is involved with AI and say they can make anything in minutes with AI too

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#207

Post by guywithahat »

lyu07282 wrote: post #134
mettamage wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit out of the loop, why are people moving away from Github?

> GitHub saw a 58% year-over-year increase in the number of incidents, reaching 109 reported cases: > 17 of them were classified as major, leading to over 100 hours of total disruption. > April stood out as the most turbulent month, with incidents accumulating to 330 hours and 6 minutes. https://gitprotect.io/blog/devops-threats-unwrapped-mid-year... That's from 2025 but it continued getting even worse this year.

I will say, to their credit, there has been a ~25% yoy commit increase since the introduction of AI. That's a pretty significant jump on an already popular site, at the same time they're supposed to be training models for search and other features. I think most sites that see that sort of increase will experience increased downtime

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#208

Post by mrguyorama »

miningape wrote: post #24
thiago_fm wrote: post #8

It isn't surprising at all, Microsoft is doing a PE firm playbook with what they buy. You don't need to look much far, let's think about its biggest acquisition to date, Blizzard. Blizzcon canceled. All of its IP barely got any love. See what players think about the latest World of Warcraft patch. It's absolutely shit and broken. People say they fired the entire QA department since a few years back and since then the…

> See what players think about the latest World of Warcraft patch. It's absolutely shit and broken Crazy to me that the loot tables are still broken for some players/characters, they've tried to fix it several times now, and it's still not working - Since (some) endgame gear can only be obtained this way they've effectively soft locked those players/character out of the endgame. Context: Some players are always recei…

Oh good, they managed to break MMO functionality that has worked for 30 years.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#209

Post by strenholme »

exabrial wrote: post #183

GitLab isn't much better. The releases ignore serious bugs, but they have unlimited budget to make stupid UI tweaks that offer zero real world improvement.

Indeed.

I was completely turned off my GitLab when I was updating my SSH keys across multiple accounts: GitHub, Bitbucket, Codeberg, etc.

GitLab was really buggy; it is impossible to update the SSH key in GitLab using Firefox, and no obviously indications it was a GitLab Firefox compatibility bug. Took me nearly an hour to think to try and use Chrome to upload the new SSH key.

Ugh. I won’t touch GitLab again after that experience.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#210

Post by strenholme »

strenholme wrote: post #100
motbus3 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting! I worked with Gitlab and I also thought it was quite clunky. If it was not for the stability issues GitHub is fine. Any other alternatives to GH or GL?

Self-hosting with open source code: - SourceHut: https://sr.ht/~sircmpwn/sourcehut/ - Forgejo (used by Codeberg, etc.): https://forgejo.org/

Also:

- https://about.gitea.com/ (F/OSS MIT license self hosting GitHub like instance)

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