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HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

theregister.com

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Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#141

Post by mitchell_h »

nicoburns wrote: post #31
WestCoader wrote: post #6

Nothing is pissing me off more than GitHub's stability going down the tubes RIGHT as work is migrating everything, and I mean everything, from CircleCI to GH. The wildest thing is that Azure Repos/Pipelines was better than this. Their one caveat is also that they are still migrating it to Azure infra, so it's possible that's still in a one foot in one foot out kinda scenario, from what I've heard. But, this isn't ins…

They're claiming a huge increase in traffic due to vibe coded projects. It might just be an excuse, but it certainly seems plausible to me.

They can claim that...but if you've built a public SaaS before you know the job is not to host the software, it's to put rails around people taking it down. They've had since 2008 to build those rails, and they're just now hitting places that take the service down on the regular?

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#142

Post by esterly »

rwmj wrote: post #137

> “I'm GitHub user 1299, joined Feb 2008,” How do you find out what "github user #" you are?

`curl https://api.github.com/users/YOUR_USER_HERE` then look for the id in the payload. "id": 2851

Or look at the html source of your avatar, https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2851?v=4

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#143

Post by torben-friis »

bellowsgulch wrote: post #125

I’m certain I’m up there in the 1% of users, or close to it, that are writing software daily in terms of consistent prolonged volume of work and work that is actually used by others over the past nearly 20 years based on user activity statistics I’ve collected. I, too, am a fairly, but not immediate early user of GitHub. Despite GitHub’s poor metrics, I am still shipping, because writing software doesn’t require GitH…

>if he wasn’t who he was and you read these comments, you’d think this person had a problem. So, I think he does.

Honestly, I thought you were demeaning him to defend GitHub. But after reading the article, it does seem like his emotional reaction is not aligned with the situation. Just saying it openly for others who get the same impression I did.

That said, GitHub can be a full time job for many (handling and responding issues, reviews, and so on, depending on the size of the project). It's also not unheard of to have PR descriptions and comments as part of documentation rather than commit messages. So GitHub's availability is certainly extremely disruptive to many companies.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#144

Post by ulbu »

joombaga wrote: post #132
aprilnya wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

„I don’t use any of GitHub’s non-git features, so if you use them you have a problem”

Who are you quoting?

"Writing software doesn't require GitHub". Well, if they do not need whatever is specific to github and claim that someone who sorely lacks these features has a mental problem...

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#146

Post by bonesss »

hirako2000 wrote: post #83
nacozarina wrote: post #67

everyone knew M$ would ruin github the fake surprise is so fake

M$ bought GH almost a decad ago. Instability is more due to mainstream traffic, combined (+ AI automation pushes on pointless repos) than some slow motion evil mastermind plot. Hanlon's razor applies.

Implying that MS would crater an org like GitHub within a few years is ascribing fundamental incompetence to a provably competent acquirer. Hanlon’s razor is precluded from use if there is contradictory logic.

GitHub’s mandated transfer to Azure was on hold for quite a while, Azure needed to be upgraded to handle them. Then the migration started, a multi-year effort, then the LLMs got integrated.

If you slap a 2.5 year window onto those phases you end up around a decade. That’s Enterprise timing, not slow motion.

And, critically, this is not some new emergent phenomenon today. Orgs are pulling the plug noticeably now because of massive service failures. The reputational damage has been growing over time.

Management changed, dumbish things happened, and consequences are rolling out. Even MS didn’t push the direct changes causing the issues (they did), they are responsible for avoiding and alleviating them (they didn’t). Change propagation takes time bound by the medium of transmission.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#147

Post by gawa »

rytis wrote: post #59
erelong wrote: post #23

so where should people move to instead

I wonder if there's a place for something like matrix, but for repositories (or maybe matrix protocol can handle that?). A world where we have selfhosted, saas, etc, but all interlinked and searchable? Say I find a project on gitlab, I want to contribute to, I checkout to my personal server (or someone elses hosted), and raise a pr back to original repo. I know it doesn't answer your question, just thinking aloud rea…

Some alternative forge are built with decentralization in mind:

- forgejo [1] is working on ForgeFed [2], an extension of ActivityPub (the protocol made popular by Mastodon)

- tangled is built on top of ATproto (the protocol behind Bluesky) [3]

- radicle is rolling their own protocol, more peer-to-peer than federated [4]

- fossil is a broader all-in-one solution: not only a new Version Control System (a replacement for git), but also a forge (has the features of a forge: issues (bug-tracking), PRs, comments, wikis, ...) [5]

The other self-hosted forges such as gitlab, sourcehut, gitea don't have such a high level of decentralization and resilience. It does not make them less good, they are solving different problems, mainly being a easy-to-use self-hosted alternative to proprietary forges. For instance Gitea has Gitea Actions, which is designed to be compatible with GitHub Actions [6], while I don't think running CI/CD workflow in a decentralized way will the priority of projects like tangled or radicle.

[1] https://forgejo.org/faq/#is-there-a-roadmap-for-forgejo

[2] https://forgefed.org/

[3] https://tangled.org/

[4] https://radicle.dev/guides/protocol#federation-vs-peer-to-pe...

[5] https://fossil-scm.org/home/doc/trunk/www/index.wiki

[6] https://docs.gitea.com/usage/actions/overview

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#148

Post by Esophagus4 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #65
Mashimo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh FOSS projects I totally understand. It's where I go to too. But closed source companies surly don't need to establish a community?

Go with the flow, don't rock the boat and use what developers already know, are probably the most cited reasons I've heard. I've tried so many times in the past to argue for self-hosted setup that you fully control if you can afford it, things just get so much smoother and if you're a software development company, you probably want to own the software development workflow E2E so you can actually ship as fast as you w…

I’ve argued the opposite most of the time in build vs buy. Buy in almost every case unless it’s a real competitive advantage to you.

I know developers love to build, but do you think:

1) self-hosting git provides any competitive edge to the business over letting someone manage it?

2) it provides so much value that you’re willing to fund engineers to build, secure, support this on an ongoing basis?

I’ve found the answer to those is No in both cases.

The same reason you wouldn’t build your own internal chat tool, you’d use Slack. And you wouldn’t bother self-hosting your own Jira or documentation.

Code hosting is code hosting, there’s no difference where it's hosted. There’s no slowdown in delivery with using GitHub - their March uptime was 99.5% which annoys some commenters but it’s fine. That’s 45 minutes downtime per month which is tolerable.

You would spend way more effort and money building a jenky self-hosted solution to end up with a worse result.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#149

Post by giancarlostoro »

motbus3 wrote: post #44
nicoburns wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're claiming a huge increase in traffic due to vibe coded projects. It might just be an excuse, but it certainly seems plausible to me.

Could be. But 99% of the repos are static garbage with no PR nor actions. They mentioned they have some elasticsearch reindexing going to, I would guess they needed to regard or move stuff and something didn't work well. But if I understood it right they mentioned the PRs ES index which they didn't shared proof increased as the number of repos. It might be anything. It seems they lost huge chunks due to layoffs and s…

At that point, make it lazy indexing? Who cares that I can't find a repo that was made 10 seconds ago, or even 15 minutes ago? No seriously, who cares? Search to that level of nuance is not mission critical, I don't care what anyone says, you'll live if you wait another 15 minutes or even an hour. Their search has been terrible since their last major set of search changes where they overhauled it completely either way.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#150

Post by dwedge »

WestCoader wrote: post #6

Nothing is pissing me off more than GitHub's stability going down the tubes RIGHT as work is migrating everything, and I mean everything, from CircleCI to GH. The wildest thing is that Azure Repos/Pipelines was better than this. Their one caveat is also that they are still migrating it to Azure infra, so it's possible that's still in a one foot in one foot out kinda scenario, from what I've heard. But, this isn't ins…

Two weeks ago I had a commission to explore migrating from selfhosted gitlab to github for better AI integration. Last night that project was cancelled due to github outages and we're going to upgrade the self hosted server instead. I'd be tempted to use something like forgejo but there are a dozen devs and honestly I've only ever used it solo.
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