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Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

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Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#91

Post by spwa4 »

AntiUSAbah wrote: post #39
spwa4 wrote: post #20

The problem with this, historically is that the way Europe's geography works, a number of countries are just not going to fairly share in the burden of defending Europe, while other countries have the ability to tax foreign trade. Ireland is famous for this, and looking at a map, you can see why. Spain, Turkey and Denmark have historically taxed foreign trade. Additionally a number of countries have "unfair" advantag…

We work together in europe and we are not arming ourselves to fight european partners but because of russia

Yes ... countries that can't decide to invest in their own hospitals or education are going to arm themselves to pursue wars to protect little states thousands of kilometers away they barely even trade with. I haven't even mentioned that even as part of NATO they have systematically refused to invest in the defense of the Baltic states. That is not ancient history, that's 6 months ago. Oh and they're financing this with loans. EU government debt is already a pretty heavy burden in ... essentially everywhere except Germany. So they're kicking the can down the road, and this is military investment. It's not going to improve anything about the EU. It'll either do nothing at all (that's the optimal scenario: Russia is deterred and nothing happens. The economic production rots away in some secret basement until it literally decays into dust) or it'll cause destruction. Its value is either zero or MINUS trillions. The loans, however, will need to be repaid.

I'm just thinking ahead to what will happen once these loans turn from a short-term economic boost and start dragging the economies further down.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#92

Post by lostlogin »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #72

This feels like the 1920s all over again. Germany is riddled with structural and economic failures, yet instead of addressing them, politicians are pivoting toward a war footing. The economy has been trapped in a cycle of recession and stagnation since the pandemic, but the current political response is to debate cuts to social benefits and tax increases. This is compounded by a self-inflicted energy crisis, shutting…

If we’re comparing Nazis, can we include both sides of the Atlantic?

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#93

Post by spwa4 »

pjc50 wrote: post #22
vr46 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're laughing all the way to the bank, the US has locked Europe into so many long-term petrochem supply contracts courtesy of two energy crises, and the US have stated point-blank that the supplies (of LNG, in this case) are tied to the US-EU trade treaty plus whatever changes the US wants to make. Same protection racket plus a foot on the brake of the EU's push to renewables.

The renewables rollout just keeps going despite the discourse. It does mean buying things from China, which is now the least threatening option.

Yes, but it won't matter. The state energy firms of EU countries are going heavily into debt to survive this crisis, and it'll just turn from "paying high electricity prices because oil is expensive" to "paying high energy prices to repay state debt".

I mean it'll help in the sense that energy supply will switch to renewable sources, sure. Great for the climate, hopefully, But it won't help in lowering energy cost.

And before you say "but solar panels". A bunch of states have already started pretty heavily taxing them.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#94

Post by legulere »

inigoalonso wrote: post #71
wewxjfq wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe sans Russia does not produce uranium - why people constantly paint this as an independent energy source is beyond me. Of all Russian energy companies, it was Rosatom that could not be sanctioned.

You’re right that European nuclear is not "independent" if that means "mined entirely inside Europe". But the dependency profile is not the same for Russian pipeline gas. Uranium is globally traded, compact, cheap to stockpile relative to the energy it contains, and available from several non-Russian suppliers (Kazakhstan, Canada, Namibia, Australia...). The harder choke points are conversion, enrichment, and reactor…

Europe managed to get off Russian Gas, but didn’t manage to get off Russian uranium industry. You correctly identified the chokepoints and Russia can’t be replaced fast there.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#95

Post by akie »

nolok wrote: post #41
ragebol wrote: post #2

It's still baffling to see the US lose so much face in so short a time. There is definitely truth that Europe has relied on US defense for too long, but what the US got in return is hard to put into words and economic terms. We bought your tech, culture, defense and so much other stuff. This rift won't close anytime soon

It's a classic case of falling for your own BS. The world's rules were written by them, for them, and their allies notably european countries were willing to go along for the ride for all the side benefit of said safety and stability, both pretended it was a gift out of niceness while it was actually massively profitable But then a portion of the US started believing the whole gift part, and now they're destroying th…

I wish I could upvote you twice, because that's exactly what's happening.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#96

Post by bananaflag »

strogonoff wrote: post #74
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minor nitpick: you meant "lose", not "loose". It's a common mistake that I see around, and I think it might be useful for you to know :)

I dabble in correcting other people’s spelling on occasion (can’t help it). Somewhat frustratingly, the usual reaction is “language evolves” and “everyone uses it this way” and “if it is understood, it does not matter how you wrote it”.

I agree with the argument that language evolves.

Still, "loose" is confusing because it makes me think for one second of the actual word "loose", so it breaks the cadence of reading (and thus it is not really "understood"). If the word "loose" didn't exist, I would have no problem with people misspelling "lose" in this way and eventually becoming mainstream.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#97

Post by pjc50 »

pfdietz wrote: post #17
ragebol wrote: post #2

It's still baffling to see the US lose so much face in so short a time. There is definitely truth that Europe has relied on US defense for too long, but what the US got in return is hard to put into words and economic terms. We bought your tech, culture, defense and so much other stuff. This rift won't close anytime soon

The US is teetering on the edge of a financial abyss. These are all just foreshocks.

People say this about a lot of places, and even Greece is now kind of OK. The US is not yet Argentina. The bad governance is mostly exporting problems to elsewhere, like the new oil crisis for east Asia.

Even the ""government shutdown"" (just ended) isn't a problem. It turns out that you don't have to pay air traffic controllers for months.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#98

Post by sajithdilshan »

lostlogin wrote: post #92
sajithdilshan wrote: post #72

This feels like the 1920s all over again. Germany is riddled with structural and economic failures, yet instead of addressing them, politicians are pivoting toward a war footing. The economy has been trapped in a cycle of recession and stagnation since the pandemic, but the current political response is to debate cuts to social benefits and tax increases. This is compounded by a self-inflicted energy crisis, shutting…

If we’re comparing Nazis, can we include both sides of the Atlantic?

I wasn't comparing Nazis but the reality. Maybe that's your narrative

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#99

Post by pjc50 »

spwa4 wrote: post #93
pjc50 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The renewables rollout just keeps going despite the discourse. It does mean buying things from China, which is now the least threatening option.

Yes, but it won't matter. The state energy firms of EU countries are going heavily into debt to survive this crisis, and it'll just turn from "paying high electricity prices because oil is expensive" to "paying high energy prices to repay state debt". I mean it'll help in the sense that energy supply will switch to renewable sources, sure. Great for the climate, hopefully, But it won't help in lowering energy cost. A…

> The state energy firms of EU countries

Which state energy firms? Most countries have mostly privatized generation with just the grid in public ownership. EDF is something of an exception, but they have very different economics (and the nuclear fleet).

> "paying high energy prices to repay state debt"

The whole range of general taxation is available for that.

> A bunch of states have already started pretty heavily taxing them.

Which European states?

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#100

Post by pjc50 »

jahnu wrote: post #62
ragebol wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more shocking thing might even be that this whole mess is allowed to continue and that there is no way to stop an out of hand situation. The whole US system can't be trusted even when this administration is gone, it's just broken.

This is the truth. It would only take half a dozen Republicans to stop the madness now so the obvious question is why don't they? The political system and elite institutions have failed their country. Does the US self correct with the next two election cycles? Hard to believe right now.

They like it this way. That, more than anything else, makes them Republicans.
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