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Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

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Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#41

Post by nolok »

ragebol wrote: post #2

It's still baffling to see the US lose so much face in so short a time. There is definitely truth that Europe has relied on US defense for too long, but what the US got in return is hard to put into words and economic terms. We bought your tech, culture, defense and so much other stuff. This rift won't close anytime soon

It's a classic case of falling for your own BS.

The world's rules were written by them, for them, and their allies notably european countries were willing to go along for the ride for all the side benefit of said safety and stability, both pretended it was a gift out of niceness while it was actually massively profitable

But then a portion of the US started believing the whole gift part, and now they're destroying their own control of the world order and forcing other to realign out of their control

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#42

Post by serallak »

kakacik wrote: post #28
nolok wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One, I feel like the "propping up Europe" is preposterous when europe is buying those things, not getting them for free, just like american weapon delivery to Ukraine have been paid by europe and not free for a long while now. Two, the US wasting of ammunition in an ill-prepared fight against Iran that has not produced any of the result they claim to want but managed to make things instable for a lot of the world has…

Ukraine soldiers had some comments on US military guidelines for use of patriots that they saw in this war - incredibly wasteful, where up to 10-15 rockets are used per 1 incoming shahed. They just set the system in automatic mode, let it select targets and fire at its will, and run for the bunker. Ukrainians, having very little of those (or nothing now), used 1 patriot missile per 1 boogey with little drop in effect…

Ukraine government also issued a statement saying that the US forces used 800 Patriot interceptors against Iran in three days at the start of the current war.

While Ukraine used just 600 interceptors in 4 years of war.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#43

Post by AntiUSAbah »

renewiltord wrote: post #25

[flagged]

I'm upvoting you for the fact, that I want to see USA also decline in power and everything else just to see USA get f... after all of this shit from that Clown in the Clown House.

But otherwise? All of this is stupid. USA always warmongered around everywhere and it gave it a lot of power, petrodollar and control. Its very weird that the USA Strategy is now getting dismanteld like this.

I can only assume its the orange clown who either thinks very ignorant or only for his own interest and gets pushed from Putin to play this game.

I don't mind though, Putin showed how shit his army is and germany/europe knows how to make weapons. Always have

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#44

Post by GJim »

mog_dev wrote: post #7
samrus wrote: post #4

[flagged]

The US did not "pick up" Europe's defense bill out of charity. It ran a garrison empire because forward bases served American interests: containing Russia, projecting power, locking allies into US weapons. European welfare states are funded by European taxes, not Pentagon largesse. Defense is nowhere the "largest expense" of any developed country, pensions and healthcare are. Europe rearming is overdue, but the right…

The "Because America pays for Europe's defence, is how Europeans can afford holidays and free healthcare" is classic Russian propaganda.

Frankly, it doesn't pass the sniff test and its bizarre to see some (educated!) American HN readers falling for it.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#45

Post by ragebol »

mpweiher wrote: post #33
pjc50 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The renewables rollout just keeps going despite the discourse. It does mean buying things from China, which is now the least threatening option.

Alas, it is exactly the intermittent renewables that create a dependency on fossil fuels. Unless you have nuclear or another reliable source like hydro, which you only get if you have the right topography for it.

How do renewables create a dependency on fossil fuels? This dependency already existed before renewables in the current sense were a thing.

If anything, renewables help existing stock of fossil fuels last longer as you don't burn as much when renewables are generating.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#46

Post by fundatus »

mpweiher wrote: post #33
pjc50 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The renewables rollout just keeps going despite the discourse. It does mean buying things from China, which is now the least threatening option.

Alas, it is exactly the intermittent renewables that create a dependency on fossil fuels. Unless you have nuclear or another reliable source like hydro, which you only get if you have the right topography for it.

> Alas, it is exactly the intermittent renewables that create a dependency on fossil fuels.

First of all, this is an insane statement.

> Unless you have nuclear

Second of all, with nuclear most countries will still be dependent on other countries for their fuel needs. So it doesn't solve the problem discussed here at all.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#47

Post by brazzy »

spwa4 wrote: post #20

The problem with this, historically is that the way Europe's geography works, a number of countries are just not going to fairly share in the burden of defending Europe, while other countries have the ability to tax foreign trade. Ireland is famous for this, and looking at a map, you can see why. Spain, Turkey and Denmark have historically taxed foreign trade. Additionally a number of countries have "unfair" advantag…

> Historically, they ... you can say Europe was more peaceful than places like the areas of the ottoman empire

Um... WHAT?

I'll just leave this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#48

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

flohofwoe wrote: post #36
renewiltord wrote: post #25

[flagged]

So no more US military bases in Europe then? No more trade with a market of 500 million people? No more cooperation on science and research? Nothing of the current US isolationism makes any goddamn longterm sense for the US. Europe and the rest of the world will be fine, mostly. Just please don't start any wars that mess up the global economy like you just did. Thanks.

Let's take this one by one.

> So no more US military bases in Europe then?

Fine. If the US wants to lose that, it's collateral to the US's political changes. It should have been obvious that this was a consequence, and one bad for the USA - e.g. it's much harder to fly aircraft from USA to middle east without refuelling bases in Europe.

> No more trade with a market of 500 million people?

The EU is always willing to trade, and negotiate durable terms. The impediments to that are on the US side. "no more trade" is an exaggeration of course, but the US's actions will limit trade.

> No more cooperation on science and research?

How much science and research is going to happen in the US in the near future? I'm told that it's not a growth area. The EU and others are going to have to step up here, take in researchers, develop vaccines etc.

> Nothing of the current US isolationism makes any goddamn longterm sense for the US.

Agreed, no notes.

> Europe and the rest of the world will be fine, mostly.

The current petrochemical price shock seems like it will be not fine for Europe and the rest of the world. And they will know who to blame. The silver lining is that it helps make the case for solar and renewables, and accelerate the transition away from fossil fuels.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#49

Post by Kampfschnitzel »

fabian2k wrote: post #11

> But the U.S. has made it clear that it wants to concentrate on the Indo-Pacific and the threat posed by China's powerful military, rather than propping up Europe. If that were true they wouldn't have wasted enormous amounts of expensive ammunition in Iran.

Iran is imo. in parts about china. Controlling the strait of Hormuz means controlling a significant amount of energy supplies if china. Same thing with Venezuela.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#50

Post by khriss »

ignoramous wrote: post #40
pfdietz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is teetering on the edge of a financial abyss. These are all just foreshocks.

> The US is teetering on the edge of a financial abyss. Do you say this because of the outstanding debt? Otherwise, just their top 10 publicly traded companies earn more than all but 2 countries. Just the US defense budget ($1T and estimated $1.5T next year), which exports US foreign policy globally, absolutely dwarfs every other country's.

Debt, rather the lack of any via ble means for the US to pay back even a fraction of its debt without having the world's reserve currency.

Yes, theoretically they can always print their way out, but that's just default through inflation and bond yields will correct immediately to account for it.

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