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Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

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Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#131

Post by ndr42 »

In this discussion the upgradability comes up often. Not to deny this aspect but in (my) reality it just doesn't matter.

I buy myself a Apple device every 1-2 years (alternating desktop, laptop, tablet) so that every device is in use by me for about 3-5 years and then gets handed down to the family (spouse, kids, parents). The demand is big enough that the alternative of selling the devices never occurred.

So the Apple devices are not disposed and in use for more than a decade while my devices are up to date. I think this happens in a lot of families. In mine it had been this way for about 30 years when I got a Performa 630 handed down from my dad.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#132

Post by panick21_ »

maxloh wrote: post #71
panick21_ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple could make a modular device to very close to the same price they do their current laptop. Its much more about size and supply chain then some minor changes in design. Maybe a little bit more extensive, but not more then 5-10%. They don't make it modular because they don't want it to be modular.

Repairability often comes at the cost of size, weight, production cost, or a combination of them.

Again, that may be true but its a question of how much. And in some cases, it can also go into another direction. I maintain that apple could make a modular repairable device within a few % of all those things.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#133

Post by snvzz »

GregDavidson wrote: post #110

Everything I run on servers I also run on my laptop. Occasionally I get crashes or corruption because of the lack of ECC memory. I'd also like to be able to swap parts between a modular laptop and a home/small-office server, but again - I want ECC. If framework had a model with ECC I'd be all in!

ECC is a requirement for me as well.

I'll have to pass this time, because no ECC.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#134

Post by sam_lowry_ »

hexfish wrote: post #76
sam_lowry_ wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amd versions can not suspend to RAM, I heard.

You mean just suspend as in 'sleep'? Like closing the lid on a macbook. I am doing that with the regular framework 13 (same amd though) multiple times a day.

And this drains 10-20% of battery per day?

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#135

Post by ncallaway »

GregDavidson wrote: post #110

Everything I run on servers I also run on my laptop. Occasionally I get crashes or corruption because of the lack of ECC memory. I'd also like to be able to swap parts between a modular laptop and a home/small-office server, but again - I want ECC. If framework had a model with ECC I'd be all in!

Couldn’t you just… get a framework without RAM and buy ECC memory separately?

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#136

Post by cromka »

growt wrote: post #129
growt wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you can sell your old MacBook. And they hold their value pretty well. So I don’t know if framework would actually come out ahead financially.

I just did a quick check: a 2022 Macbook pro M1 with 1tb and 16gb ram goes for 1119 euros on eBay. A new M5 mbp with the same ram and disk is 1899 euros, so 709 difference. And you get a whole new machine not just a cpu upgrade.

Yeah, they hold up their value amazingly well. People keep mentioning biodegradability of Framework, but in Macbook world it's basically a non-issue if your old machine is still usable.

On the other hand, if something fails out of the warranty, this is where you win with Framework.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#137

Post by cromka »

bigyabai wrote: post #72
endominus wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of the Macbook Pro 14 in 2031: another £1999 Cost of the Framework 13 upgrade kit in 2031: £499 The point of the upgradability and openness of the design is that you only have to pay that cost once , instead of every time you buy a laptop. How much will it cost to upgrade a MacBook's RAM if you decide you need more after a year or two? £2099?

Repair cost is worth noting too. If your keyboard breaks: Macbook Pro - You pay for a new topcase assembly Framework Pro - You pay a new keyboard

Macbook Pro M2 topcase with a battery here in Poland is 80 USD. Pro M3/M4 is 110 USD.

Framework 13 keyboard is 60 USD. There really isn't that much difference, and you're getting a free, used battery.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#138

Post by cromka »

kelnos wrote: post #126
maxloh wrote: post #12

I like their openness on hardware design. They open sourced their design under CC-BY-4.0 (surprisingly no NC!) in hope that it could enable reuse [1]. However, the whole thing is overpriced. Quoting kingsleyopara's comment 4 days ago [2], ...matching specs it comes out as more expensive than the MBP - even worse when you factor in potential discounts/sales which framework doesn't offer. Framework 13 Pro: £2064 (Ultra…

This always seems to come up in discussions about Framework. The extra cost is more than made up in not having to buy a full new computer every few years, and in being able to swap out the keyboard for $40 if it breaks.

Did you know you can replace Macbook keyboard if it brakes, for roughly similar money?

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#139

Post by cromka »

robotnikman wrote: post #104
cassianoleal wrote: post #2

Does anyone know how the Intel and AMD offerings compare? I take it battery life is better on Intel. What about performance for different tasks, such as coding, compiling, etc. What about local LLMs? Do both platforms have "unified memory" à la Apple Silicon? Neither?

It looks like Intel's new Panther Lake chips are a hit, they have amazing battery life and performance compared to their AMD and ARM equivalents (excluding Apple ofc), and the the integrated graphics is better than AMD, ARM, or Apple. They do not have integrated memory, but by using LPCAMM2 they get better memory speeds than any laptops using the usual SODIMM memory modules. It's nice to see Intel on the upswing agai…

> and ARM equivalents (excluding Apple ofc)

Excluding Qualcomm as well, especially excluding the X2 Elite.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#140

Post by cromka »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #134
hexfish wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean just suspend as in 'sleep'? Like closing the lid on a macbook. I am doing that with the regular framework 13 (same amd though) multiple times a day.

And this drains 10-20% of battery per day?

It's called s2idle and all modern CPUs rely on that, not just AMD. S3 was made obsolete.
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