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Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

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Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#121

Post by [deleted] »

doctaj wrote: post #119
spankibalt wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "[...] they just last way longer than any of their competitors." Citations, please. In the meantime, an anecdote: My oldest modern-era (64-bit) daily driver is one I use heavily since 15 years. An HP, 16 or 17 years old. The only component that ever caked-out in that bird was the original mechanical hard drive, which died just this year. Similar experiences with IBM/Lenovo, Panasonic and Fujitsu. Apple laptops I do…

Another anecdote: I had an HP Laptop 15 years ago that only lasted 1 year.

[deleted]

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#122

Post by Forgeties79 »

aquariusDue wrote: post #93
Forgeties79 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not have a framework so I have not looked at the entire list of what OS’s it can support as I’m only interested in pop and bazzite these days. It may very well support those you listed

Yeah, I've checked and I came across this thread https://community.frame.work/t/alternative-oses/71944/4 on the Framework forums that confirms that people are actively interested in running more than Windows and Linux. The future is bright. RE: Pop and Bazzite I'm really excited for COSMIC, did you find it good enough to daily drive yet? I've been watching from the sidelines but I haven't taken the plunge to try it.

Not familiar at all! Need to take a look. First glance seems neat

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#123

Post by d3Xt3r »

IshKebab wrote: post #112
bloppe wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but if you factor in the possibility of never having to do a full system upgrade again, and instead just upgrading individual parts (including the chassis) as needed, the long term cost of ownership would be way lower if you commit to framework

I don't think that is actually true - upgrading by selling your old laptop and buying a new one is still going to be cheaper than Framework's upgrades. I wish it wasn't but it is.

Not necessarily true, and not necessarily even a option sometimes.

In my case for example, the ThinkPad Z13 was the best laptop for me at the time. My main criteria generally is a top-tier AMD APU, first-class Linux support, machined aluminium body, 12-14" display. Only the ThinkPad Z13 met my criteria at the time, but there wasn't any in stock in my country. So my only option was to import it, and it was pretty expensive with all the import duties. A Framework would've been cheaper, but they didn't ship to my country and they also didn't have an aluminum chassis.

It was worth it though, I'm still using the ThinkPad and it's hands-down one of the best laptop+Linux experiences I've ever had.

It's now time for an upgrade. Unfortunately, Lenovo killed the Z13 line with no equivalent replacement, and everything else on the market currently has some or the other limitation (for me) - the most common limitation being lack of official Linux support.

Thankfully, Framework finally started shipping to my country this year, and their laptops also finally meet all my requirements (the previous models were all lacking the machined aluminum chassis). This also means that I may have found my "final" laptop at last, assuming Framework continues to deliver on their promise. Never again do I have to go hunting around for a Linux-first machined-aluminium top-tier 13" AMD laptop. And the best part is, I can just swap out the mainboard the next time I want to upgrade - which I guarantee will be way cheaper than buying a laptop that meets all my requirements, assuming it even exists.

But if you're not like me and you're fine with any random el cheapo Windows laptop, then yeah Framework is probably not for you.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#124

Post by dethos »

maxloh wrote: post #12

I like their openness on hardware design. They open sourced their design under CC-BY-4.0 (surprisingly no NC!) in hope that it could enable reuse [1]. However, the whole thing is overpriced. Quoting kingsleyopara's comment 4 days ago [2], ...matching specs it comes out as more expensive than the MBP - even worse when you factor in potential discounts/sales which framework doesn't offer. Framework 13 Pro: £2064 (Ultra…

I would still get a Framework rather than a MacBook. A couple of hundred dollars for the openness, repairability, and upgradability is a great deal.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#125

Post by Rapzid »

maxloh wrote: post #12

I like their openness on hardware design. They open sourced their design under CC-BY-4.0 (surprisingly no NC!) in hope that it could enable reuse [1]. However, the whole thing is overpriced. Quoting kingsleyopara's comment 4 days ago [2], ...matching specs it comes out as more expensive than the MBP - even worse when you factor in potential discounts/sales which framework doesn't offer. Framework 13 Pro: £2064 (Ultra…

The MacBook's aren't a fungible alternative as they lock you into MacOS effectively and don't use Intel and AMD processors.

Also, I'm not sure what a good alternative is these days to the Framework 13 Pro. I DO NOT USE GLOSS SCREENS on productivity laptops(the only reason I have a laptop). Heck, my LG OLED monitor and top-end Samsung s95f OLED TV are matte as well due to the lighting in my space; I like light!

That means any time I'm looking at laptops I've having to re-asses the landscape because year-to-year manufactures flip-flop between screen finish even in their productivity lines. The Asus Zenbook looks good, but it's all gloss screens. I'm looking at the latest crop of Thinkbook and they don't even have the AMD 350 as an option right now; and I'm not sure about the display finish.

It's not so easy to compare like-for-like when it's apples and oranges.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#126

Post by kelnos »

maxloh wrote: post #12

I like their openness on hardware design. They open sourced their design under CC-BY-4.0 (surprisingly no NC!) in hope that it could enable reuse [1]. However, the whole thing is overpriced. Quoting kingsleyopara's comment 4 days ago [2], ...matching specs it comes out as more expensive than the MBP - even worse when you factor in potential discounts/sales which framework doesn't offer. Framework 13 Pro: £2064 (Ultra…

This always seems to come up in discussions about Framework.

The extra cost is more than made up in not having to buy a full new computer every few years, and in being able to swap out the keyboard for $40 if it breaks.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#127

Post by 999900000999 »

craftkiller wrote: post #87
999900000999 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can swap the screen on some ThinkPads. I hope framework lives up to its promise, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

> I hope framework lives up to its promise, but I don't see that happening any time soon. That's already happened? I started with an 11th gen Intel tigerlake laptop with DDR4 memory and a glossy screen. I upgraded to the AMD 7040 with DDR5 memory when I destroyed my Intel board with a soldering iron, skipping the Intel 12th gen iteration in between and the AMD AI 300 generation after the 7040. I upgraded my screen fr…

This looks like you enjoy the process.

For me I aggressively follow laptop deals. For the last gen you can get competing laptops for the price of the main board alone.

Of course, I hope I'm wrong.

Buying used ThinkPads on eBay and installing Linux is closer to sustainability than buying into a new ecosystem of expensive and hard to find parts.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#128

Post by Forgeties79 »

999900000999 wrote: post #127
craftkiller wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope framework lives up to its promise, but I don't see that happening any time soon. That's already happened? I started with an 11th gen Intel tigerlake laptop with DDR4 memory and a glossy screen. I upgraded to the AMD 7040 with DDR5 memory when I destroyed my Intel board with a soldering iron, skipping the Intel 12th gen iteration in between and the AMD AI 300 generation after the 7040. I upgraded my screen fr…

This looks like you enjoy the process. For me I aggressively follow laptop deals. For the last gen you can get competing laptops for the price of the main board alone. Of course, I hope I'm wrong. Buying used ThinkPads on eBay and installing Linux is closer to sustainability than buying into a new ecosystem of expensive and hard to find parts.

Or we could say “Thinkpads should be more modular, repairable, and upgradable.” Some of us want to support that approach.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#129

Post by growt »

growt wrote: post #73
endominus wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of the Macbook Pro 14 in 2031: another £1999 Cost of the Framework 13 upgrade kit in 2031: £499 The point of the upgradability and openness of the design is that you only have to pay that cost once , instead of every time you buy a laptop. How much will it cost to upgrade a MacBook's RAM if you decide you need more after a year or two? £2099?

Well you can sell your old MacBook. And they hold their value pretty well. So I don’t know if framework would actually come out ahead financially.

I just did a quick check: a 2022 Macbook pro M1 with 1tb and 16gb ram goes for 1119 euros on eBay. A new M5 mbp with the same ram and disk is 1899 euros, so 709 difference. And you get a whole new machine not just a cpu upgrade.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#130

Post by cassianoleal »

robotnikman wrote: post #104
cassianoleal wrote: post #2

Does anyone know how the Intel and AMD offerings compare? I take it battery life is better on Intel. What about performance for different tasks, such as coding, compiling, etc. What about local LLMs? Do both platforms have "unified memory" à la Apple Silicon? Neither?

It looks like Intel's new Panther Lake chips are a hit, they have amazing battery life and performance compared to their AMD and ARM equivalents (excluding Apple ofc), and the the integrated graphics is better than AMD, ARM, or Apple. They do not have integrated memory, but by using LPCAMM2 they get better memory speeds than any laptops using the usual SODIMM memory modules. It's nice to see Intel on the upswing agai…

> they get better memory speeds

I saw that, but how does that work for GPU workloads? Either games of AI, really. Do I need to set a value on the BIOS for how much of the memory is split between RAM and VRAM?

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