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Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

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Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#111

Post by spankibalt »

frantathefranta wrote: post #62
aaomidi wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple only makes disposable devices now. This is genuinely hilarious to say this with a straight face

They are disposable, they just last way longer than any of their competitors. They are not on the level of upgradability as the Framework (anymore).

> "[...] they just last way longer than any of their competitors."

Citations, please.

In the meantime, an anecdote: My oldest modern-era (64-bit) daily driver is one I use heavily since 15 years. An HP, 16 or 17 years old. The only component that ever caked-out in that bird was the original mechanical hard drive, which died just this year. Similar experiences with IBM/Lenovo, Panasonic and Fujitsu. Apple laptops I don't even look at for they don't offer anything I need.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#112

Post by IshKebab »

bloppe wrote: post #6
999900000999 wrote: post #4

We'll see what happens when it ships. Honestly I expect significantly cheaper laptops from other oems.

Sure, but if you factor in the possibility of never having to do a full system upgrade again, and instead just upgrading individual parts (including the chassis) as needed, the long term cost of ownership would be way lower if you commit to framework

I don't think that is actually true - upgrading by selling your old laptop and buying a new one is still going to be cheaper than Framework's upgrades. I wish it wasn't but it is.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#113

Post by ako »

seszett wrote: post #48
kristopolous wrote: post #33

This is what I don't get, among computer uses, apple macs are a minority. I even went around at Linux conferences and counted, like 30-40%. Why are they so so dedicated to being as much as a look and feel clone as Mac as possible? I've got zero interest in a MacBook chaser. It's not like those are inaccessible to me. I've voluntarily said no to them. Why would I want someone else's imitation of it? "If you can see he…

Most Linux users don't use Macs because running Linux on a Mac is difficult. But I think many people would like to run Linux on Apple hardware. That's what I do and I haven't found better hardware yet. You just have to be careful in choosing something that's well supported. If I had to change laptops (I didn't choose mine and I'm just lucky that M1 Macs are well supported by Asahi) I would definitely take a Framework…

I run a lot of Linux on my macbook pro m1, in parallels if i want a desktop, in docker or podman if i don't need a desktop. I prefer linux on my macbook to my previous Thinkpad (p1 gen2, 64gb, 2tb, 4k oled, core 9i). The thinkpad feels less solid, battery life is horrible, keyboard of the thinkpad is surprisingly bad.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#114

Post by rafabulsing »

kristopolous wrote: post #56
dijit wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because realistically in the laptop computer space Apple is obliterating everything else right now. You can usually name a laptop that has some feature better than a macbook, but the overall package is so strong in so many avenues. Sound quality, screen quality (even without leaning on fancy new tech like OLED), trackpad quality. Would you rather they target the Dell Latitude (Coil Whine, crazy power-off issues cause…

But that doesn't matter. If I'm looking at the framework or the Thinkpad or anything else I've said "no thanks" to Apple laptops This is my starting point. I've already turned the Mac down. It's like turning down a very specific slice of cake and then being offered the same kind of cake from different vendors when really you just want a salad

Most people who have the option of buying a Mac and still go with Windows/Linux machines do so because of the software. The hardware is almost universally agreed to be great, and a stronger overall package than most non-Mac options.

So making Mac-like hardware with Windows/Linux software is very much a great value proposition to many people.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#115

Post by loloquwowndueo »

jantissler wrote: post #106
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the advantage of buying a used MacBook if, since they hold their value well, it won’t be much cheaper than a new one?

Because they are indeed still cheaper? I'm not sure what you're getting at with your question. You can look up values for older Macs if you just don't want to believe it …

Why wouldn’t I want to “believe it”? Isn’t that the premise my entire question is based on? I’m not sure what you’re getting at with your misdirection.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#116

Post by distances »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #60
cassianoleal wrote: post #2

Does anyone know how the Intel and AMD offerings compare? I take it battery life is better on Intel. What about performance for different tasks, such as coding, compiling, etc. What about local LLMs? Do both platforms have "unified memory" à la Apple Silicon? Neither?

AMD unfortunately didn't actually get faster this gen. panther lake is faster than zen5 mobile for both cpu and GPU (except for workloads where avx512 matters)

Yes it was a bit weird how the latest generation AMD laptop chip was a sideways step. I blame the useless NPU wasting silicon, but what do I know.

I still got it as it was better than Intel's last year's offering, and it's still a fine chip. But kind of highlights how good the previous 7000 series chip was.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#117

Post by ludocode »

helterskelter wrote: post #16

I love my Framework laptop. The only thing I haven't seen mentioned in detail is the expansion card bay redesign. Current F13 expansion cards will pull out sometimes when you remove a USB cable, which is a real annoyance. F11 fixed this by creating optional set screws you can install on the inside of the machine that forces the expansion cards to stay engaged. I know F13pro has redesigned the switches for removing ex…

> Current F13 expansion cards will pull out sometimes

Just echoing what others have said here: I'm typing this on an original F13 I think from batch 6 which has had many upgrades but not the bottom cover. I have never had an expansion card pop out accidentally. I can't imagine that happening considering how difficult they are to remove. I usually have to lay the laptop flat upside down and use my multitool while holding the button to push a card out.

My wife has an F12 and she has also never had one pop out accidentally. Unlike mine, hers has locking switches to keep them in place, but even with the switches open they're pretty hard to remove.

Is it possible there was an intermediate redesign at some point that made them too easy to remove before they landed on the latest design?

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#118

Post by akho »

rafabulsing wrote: post #114
kristopolous wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that doesn't matter. If I'm looking at the framework or the Thinkpad or anything else I've said "no thanks" to Apple laptops This is my starting point. I've already turned the Mac down. It's like turning down a very specific slice of cake and then being offered the same kind of cake from different vendors when really you just want a salad

Most people who have the option of buying a Mac and still go with Windows/Linux machines do so because of the software. The hardware is almost universally agreed to be great, and a stronger overall package than most non-Mac options. So making Mac-like hardware with Windows/Linux software is very much a great value proposition to many people.

> The hardware is almost universally agreed to be great

There is some agreement in terms of the M chips. There is no universl agreement re keyboard layout, screen technology and surfacing, trackpoints, touchscreens, 2-in-1 form factors, port selection, or aluminium unibodies.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#119

Post by doctaj »

spankibalt wrote: post #111
frantathefranta wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are disposable, they just last way longer than any of their competitors. They are not on the level of upgradability as the Framework (anymore).

> "[...] they just last way longer than any of their competitors." Citations, please. In the meantime, an anecdote: My oldest modern-era (64-bit) daily driver is one I use heavily since 15 years. An HP, 16 or 17 years old. The only component that ever caked-out in that bird was the original mechanical hard drive, which died just this year. Similar experiences with IBM/Lenovo, Panasonic and Fujitsu. Apple laptops I do…

Another anecdote: I had an HP Laptop 15 years ago that only lasted 1 year.
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