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Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

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Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#41

Post by mynameismon »

kristopolous wrote: post #33

This is what I don't get, among computer uses, apple macs are a minority. I even went around at Linux conferences and counted, like 30-40%. Why are they so so dedicated to being as much as a look and feel clone as Mac as possible? I've got zero interest in a MacBook chaser. It's not like those are inaccessible to me. I've voluntarily said no to them. Why would I want someone else's imitation of it? "If you can see he…

I suspect a large number of computers would be thinkpad, primarily due to its repairability, which is the biggest selling point of framework by far. So, together, you cover a pretty significant chunk of the market

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#42

Post by ranger_danger »

maxloh wrote: post #12

I like their openness on hardware design. They open sourced their design under CC-BY-4.0 (surprisingly no NC!) in hope that it could enable reuse [1]. However, the whole thing is overpriced. Quoting kingsleyopara's comment 4 days ago [2], ...matching specs it comes out as more expensive than the MBP - even worse when you factor in potential discounts/sales which framework doesn't offer. Framework 13 Pro: £2064 (Ultra…

> the whole thing is overpriced

Economy of scale... they cannot make (or sell) anywhere near as many as Apple does, so of course it's going to be more expensive. Just like that "Made in USA" grill brush that costs 75 dollars (but guess where the machines that make it come from).

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#43

Post by tw04 »

kristopolous wrote: post #33

This is what I don't get, among computer uses, apple macs are a minority. I even went around at Linux conferences and counted, like 30-40%. Why are they so so dedicated to being as much as a look and feel clone as Mac as possible? I've got zero interest in a MacBook chaser. It's not like those are inaccessible to me. I've voluntarily said no to them. Why would I want someone else's imitation of it? "If you can see he…

Because you’re in the minority. The vast majority of the population views the build quality and materials of the macbook pro to be the standard by which all others are measured.

The only thing that’s surprising is that you see 30-40% of the laptops at a Linux conference are macbooks given how poor to non-existent the Linux support is for the newer Apple silicon models.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#44

Post by Roan90 »

kristopolous wrote: post #33

This is what I don't get, among computer uses, apple macs are a minority. I even went around at Linux conferences and counted, like 30-40%. Why are they so so dedicated to being as much as a look and feel clone as Mac as possible? I've got zero interest in a MacBook chaser. It's not like those are inaccessible to me. I've voluntarily said no to them. Why would I want someone else's imitation of it? "If you can see he…

You wouldn't understand unless you've used one for a few months. There is alot to like and the dream is to have any "normal" laptop like it

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#45

Post by kelnos »

helterskelter wrote: post #16

I love my Framework laptop. The only thing I haven't seen mentioned in detail is the expansion card bay redesign. Current F13 expansion cards will pull out sometimes when you remove a USB cable, which is a real annoyance. F11 fixed this by creating optional set screws you can install on the inside of the machine that forces the expansion cards to stay engaged. I know F13pro has redesigned the switches for removing ex…

> Current F13 expansion cards will pull out sometimes when you remove a USB cable

That feels like a defect in your particular machine, not a design flaw. With my laptop, the cards are actually incredibly difficult to remove most of the time. I can't imagine one of them coming loose by accident.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#46

Post by justarobert »

999900000999 wrote: post #23
eikenberry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apples to oranges. NO other OEM makes a modular laptop yet.

You can swap the screen on some ThinkPads. I hope framework lives up to its promise, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

My thinkpad doesn't even have upgradable RAM. And it's from 2017, not even a new trend. I think that's bare minimum for considering a laptop to be modular or even upgradeable.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#47

Post by afavour »

kristopolous wrote: post #33

This is what I don't get, among computer uses, apple macs are a minority. I even went around at Linux conferences and counted, like 30-40%. Why are they so so dedicated to being as much as a look and feel clone as Mac as possible? I've got zero interest in a MacBook chaser. It's not like those are inaccessible to me. I've voluntarily said no to them. Why would I want someone else's imitation of it? "If you can see he…

> Why are they so so dedicated to being as much as a look and feel clone as Mac as possible?

Because Mac hardware is the best in the market. I’m not really sure how you’d argue otherwise. Build quality, components etc are the best, it makes sense you’d want to match that.

A lot of Linux folks would love to own a MacBook that runs Linux. But such a thing doesn’t exist (at least at a first party support level). Not wanting one because it does look like a MacBook doesn’t make a ton of sense.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#48

Post by seszett »

kristopolous wrote: post #33

This is what I don't get, among computer uses, apple macs are a minority. I even went around at Linux conferences and counted, like 30-40%. Why are they so so dedicated to being as much as a look and feel clone as Mac as possible? I've got zero interest in a MacBook chaser. It's not like those are inaccessible to me. I've voluntarily said no to them. Why would I want someone else's imitation of it? "If you can see he…

Most Linux users don't use Macs because running Linux on a Mac is difficult.

But I think many people would like to run Linux on Apple hardware. That's what I do and I haven't found better hardware yet. You just have to be careful in choosing something that's well supported.

If I had to change laptops (I didn't choose mine and I'm just lucky that M1 Macs are well supported by Asahi) I would definitely take a Framework and hope that it's sufficiently Apple-like hardware wise.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#49

Post by dijit »

kristopolous wrote: post #33

This is what I don't get, among computer uses, apple macs are a minority. I even went around at Linux conferences and counted, like 30-40%. Why are they so so dedicated to being as much as a look and feel clone as Mac as possible? I've got zero interest in a MacBook chaser. It's not like those are inaccessible to me. I've voluntarily said no to them. Why would I want someone else's imitation of it? "If you can see he…

Because realistically in the laptop computer space Apple is obliterating everything else right now.

You can usually name a laptop that has some feature better than a macbook, but the overall package is so strong in so many avenues. Sound quality, screen quality (even without leaning on fancy new tech like OLED), trackpad quality.

Would you rather they target the Dell Latitude (Coil Whine, crazy power-off issues caused by C-States, poor thermals) or Thinkpad T-series (USB-C port stops charging and requires motherboard replacement, thermal issues, weak speakers, also coil whine, unstable radio) or HP’s elitebook (randomly doesn’t wake from suspend, hinge cracking and keycaps falling off even with light wear).

The other SKU’s are a race to the bottom, despite being more expensive for the base-system (which I find ironic).

It’s a poor north star to take a degrading product line as inspiration.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#50

Post by afavour »

aaomidi wrote: post #26
biddit wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing Apples to Oranges. Apple only makes disposable devices now. They're a megacorp can negotiate massive discounts at every stage of the supply chain. I've helped several people in the last few years set up new Macs, replacing ones that were only 1-2 years old, because they ran out of storage. Additionally, the comparison doesn't even hold true when you need more than the base configs from Apple, given their ri…

> Apple only makes disposable devices now. This is genuinely hilarious to say this with a straight face

IMO it’s a reasonable point to make when compared to something like the Framework. And it took legal action to get them to offer battery replacements for iPhones, I don’t think you can really claim they’re passionate about component reuse.
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