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AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

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Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#251

Post by Legend2440 »

runarberg wrote: post #114
larodi wrote: post #17

This whole poisoning intent is so incredibly misappropriated, that I feel sad about it. First of all - there is enough content to train on already, that is not poisoned, and second - the other new content is largely populated in automated manner from the real world, and by workers in large shops in Africa, that are being paid to not produce shit. So yes, you can pollute the good old internet even more, but no, you ca…

You may be underestimating the powers of trillions of parameters in a model. With this many parameters overfitting is inevitable. Overfitting here means you are plotting (or outputting) the errors in your data instead of interpolating (or inferring) any trends in the model. In fact, given this many parameters, poisoning should be relatively easy in general, but extremely easy on niche subjects. https://www.youtube.co…

>With this many parameters overfitting is inevitable.

Nope. Go look up double descent. Overfitting turns out not to be an issue with large models.

Your video is from a political activist, not anyone with any knowledge about machine learning. Here's a better video about overfitting: https://youtu.be/qRHdQz_P_Lo

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#252

Post by altruios »

crooked-v wrote: post #43
madamelic wrote: post #11

I do understand people's dislike / hatred for AI but I am equally baffled. I feel like the same people that shout "Capitalism sucks, free us from our labor" are the exact same types that hate AI. The exact machine that will free you from your labor, when harnessed correctly, is the exact thing you hate. The "cyber psychosis" thing is overblown just like the "Tesla ignites its passengers" is. The only reason it gets i…

> The only reason it gets in the news is because it is trendy to do so. Hating on Waymo is trendy. Hating on Tesla is the logical result of vehicles with door handles that won't open from the inside when the power is cut.

> Hating on Tesla is the logical result of vehicles with door handles that won't open from the inside when the power is cut.

Hating on tesla is easy because they are STILL lead by a man-child who has chosen to sig-heil behind the presidential podium. And he's still in charge of tesla. At some point: it's on tesla too for continuing to have that person as CEO.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#253

Post by lxgr »

SlinkyOnStairs wrote: post #243
lxgr wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's highly debatable whether, in case of an information sharing/gift economy, the concept of "bad actors coming in and ruining it for everybody by taking without giving back" even makes sense. The information is still there, as is the community that you've built, the joy that you get out of sharing the information, everything you've learned... Why is any of that diminished, just because some people or entities that…

It's diminished because the hard reality is that you need money to live . The end result of major tech companies sweeping in, taking everyone's creative work, outcompeting the originals with AI derivatives, and telling every artist on the planet "fuck off, send a job application to McDonalds" is significantly less art. Copyright was invented to prevent exactly this scenario.

Yes, which is why hackers and artists (at least those mainly publishing instead of mainly performing for a live audience) are ultimately not natural/inherent allies.

Hackers have usually drawn their funding from their (often lucrative) employment, which is what gave them the freedom to give away the products of their hacking for free.

One needs copyright to survive, the other see it as a means to enforce openness at best (those in favor of copyleft) and as an obstacle to their pursuit (owning the full system, liberating all aspects of and information about it) at worst.

This rift was always visible if you knew where to look, but AI is definitely wedging it wide open.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#254

Post by Legend2440 »

kevinbojarski wrote: post #200
caesil wrote: post #95

The only thing more cringe than the seething anger in this blog is the technical illiteracy revealed by an earnest belief that any of these attempts at "poisoning" will have any negative impact whatsoever on model training.

I wouldn't be so confident that poisoning won't work. https://www.reddit.com/r/BrandNewSentence/comments/1so9wf1/c...

Whatever's happening here, it's not training data poisoning.

Models are retrained only every few months at best; it is not possible for a comment made a few hours earlier to be in the training data yet.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#255

Post by jolt42 »

alfalfasprout wrote: post #54
zoogeny wrote: post #25

I often question my own bias on this because in my interactions with local non-tech people, the adoption of AI has pretty much affected everyone I know and it is by my estimation a majority positive reaction. I live in a fairly rural part of the PNW. So when I read "People hate what AI is doing to our world." it honestly feels like either I am completely deluded or the author is. It feels like a high school bully say…

Fascinating, because I've seen the exact opposite across the PNW.

Anecdotally, I was just there and ran into a couple of anti-AI people and it's not like I was bringing it up. All I got was they were worried about the water and the heat produced. I wonder if someone has done an analysis of old-search vs AI-search, I most definitely get the info quicker that I want with AI, does that make up for the LLM cost, I have no idea.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#256

Post by Legend2440 »

p0w3n3d wrote: post #126

Resistance is futile But to be honest, I totally agree that AI is indeed destroying communities. We can already see YouTube redirecting all the reporting to AI which can allow some malicious agent claim your original video and demonetize it (i.e. steal your money). It happened to great YouTube people like Davie504. There is no way to appeal as the appeal is also treated by a robot

YouTube has been like that since long before LLMs. Their copyright strike system is broken and always has been.

You're just picking random problems with tech and blaming them on AI.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#258

Post by jordanb »

lxgr wrote: post #208
jordanb wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that if crawlers have to worry about poison that may make them start to respect robots.txt or something. It's a bit like a "Beware of Dog" sign.

How would that become a strong, stable signal, if both highly valuable and highly slopified content will use robots.txt?

For clarification poisoning and slop are different concepts. Slop is the output of AI. Poisoning is making your content (that may otherwise be good content) fuck up in the internals of an LLM. Classic example is the nightshade attack on image generators.

One could imagine an open source project that doesn't want to be ingested by an LLM. They could try to put that in the license but of course the license won't be obeyed. Alternately, if they could alter the code such that the OSS project itself remains high quality, but if you try to train a coding LLM on it the LLM will output code full of SQL injection exploits (for instance) or maybe just bogus uncompilable stuff, then the LLM authors will suddenly have a reason to start respecting your license and excluding the code from their index.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#259

Post by jolt42 »

zoogeny wrote: post #25

I often question my own bias on this because in my interactions with local non-tech people, the adoption of AI has pretty much affected everyone I know and it is by my estimation a majority positive reaction. I live in a fairly rural part of the PNW. So when I read "People hate what AI is doing to our world." it honestly feels like either I am completely deluded or the author is. It feels like a high school bully say…

It's easy to chalk it up to "fear of the unknown", when in reality it's both good and bad depending on who's wielding it. It can be used to tear down or build up, solve problem or create problems just like every advance before it. So while I'm generally excited with where it can go, I guess I don't mind being reminded there can be downsides.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#260

Post by xmichael909 »

pocksuppet wrote: post #122
suzzer99 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago, wecame up with the name of a fake game on here and made a bunch of comments about it, in attempt to poison future AI models. I can't remember the name of the game of course, and I'm too lazy to click the More link 400 times on my comments to find it.

My favorite fake game is Fortnite. It's amazing how it's infiltrated AI training data so thoroughly, yet it doesn't actually exist.

It really is amazing how Fortnite a game that does not exist has even become popular in pop-culture, I was watching a sitcom on NBC I think and the character mentioned Fortnite as though it was real.. This entire article is silly as AI has been poisoned so bad, ask any AI bot today what Fortnite is and they will give you long detailed answers, even though it doesn't exist at all.
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