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Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

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Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#651
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not aware of many places that do almost everything so excellently Probably Singapore, which is sometimes described as the Switzerland of Asia anyway. 10 Gb symmetric fibre is broadly available at around SGD $50/month (about 35 EUR).

Singapore seems very oppressive and medieval when it comes to punishment of crimes. I wouldn't want to live there.

You wouldn't want to live there because it's too safe?

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#652
post #597
post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guarantee you 99% of China landmass does not have 50G. Most of the country is ultra poor rice paddy farmers. Get real.

Fine, 99% of China "landmass" does not have 50G. 100% of the US does not have 10G. The fact that in NYC, the richest city in the history of cities, most buildings still only have access to cable from a single provider is absolutely ridiculous. Urban centers is what is worth comparison here, and the US falls massively behind.

> 100% of the US does not have 10G.

Very untrue. There are several providers in the US which offer 10Gbit services. Many more offer 2-5Gbit services pretty broadly. I've got friends in Kansas City with 40Gbit residential service. Sonic also offers 10Gbit in California.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Margins are not owed to customers, whether they are large or small. Supply & Demand sets the price. For example, if you buy a car for $5000 and flip it for $10,000, you don't owe your customer a discount.

“Supply and demand” refers to the idea that under competition, prices will go down to the marginal cost of production. When a cartel sets a price it's very much not “supply and demand” who sets the price, it's the cartel…

The cartel setting a price is still subject to the Law of Supply and Demand. The Law is not about setting a price, it is about how much sales you're going to get at a particular price point.

Maximizing the price is not the same thing at all as maximizing profit. Standard Oil made more money by reducing prices, not maximizing them.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took the image to be showing how inefficient it was to run that much fiber three times instead of just once. It’s unlikely that they’d do it at the same time but it seems very difficult to show buried fiber and a backhoe ripping up the street.

In reality, this does not happen that way. If a path already exists, you can pay to use the same duct (unless it's full) to install your own fibers. At least, it works this way in France.

Which companies usually create these ducts? Is it a business to install ducts and sell (rent?) the right to use it?

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#655
post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does New York, LA etc have 25 Gbit internet?

Density doesn't cause faster internet but it certainly facilitates it. The US has far too much lobbying to favor consumers.

Now you are moving the goalpost.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#656
post #353
post #304

What is the benefit of 25Gbps home internet?

You literally cannot think of a single benefit for having fast Internet?

I can think of a benefit of having 1Gbps. I can't think of anything that a home user would benefit from 25Gbps that is something a government should actually care about (watching 10 different 8K Netflix streams at the same time is not a human rights issue)

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> guess it's that easy for telcos to lobby the legislators 16 states having restrictions while two go explicitly pro-municipal broadband doesn’t seem like a lobbyist’s panacea. Skimming the list of states with restrictions, they look like red states trying to bridle their blue cities. Partisanship seems the more-parsimonious explanation.

~100 million consumers (assuming average sized states are impacted) being essentially defrauded by a cartel of telcos - doesn't really matter what you wanna call it but I'd say it's a pretty major deal.

> it's a pretty major deal

Never disagreed.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a thought-terminating cliché [1]. Not an actual explanation. Like, why is the assumption that countries should be homogenous? Since when did geography, culture, industrial structure, natural-resource availability and national wealth become irrelevant? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A...

Maybe thought terminating but it is discussion instigating, and if stated in a public conversation by anyone of authority and power, it's a nuclear bomb going off. This is the unstated conversation that needs to occur in public, and not by me or you or anyone less than a ruler of a major country, and not that idiot Trump.

> it is discussion instigating

Not really. "Corruption" as the answer to why America doesn't have 25 Gbit internet is (a) mostly wrong and (b) useless in terms of developing next steps.

> the unstated conversation that needs to occur in public

Everyone is constantly talking about corruption. Pretending it's "unstated" is wrong. The conversation usually doesn't go anywhere because saying corruption with zero evidence is essentially useless for generating next steps. Maybe you're right. Maybe it leads to a wild-goose chase. Either way, insufficient to actually do anything with.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been there a bunch, my colleague has lived there. We work in the telco area. My own experiences I would question, his I don't. It's oversubscription. Can I provide citations or proof? No. That's extremely hard to do with oversubscription in general, no telco will admit their exact ratio without being forced to. Sometimes you can reverse engineer it from peering relationships, but that doesn't allow identifying b…

It's oversubscription. You said that already, but repeating something isn't evidence. Oversubscription would be something that happens with cable internet on a node by node basis, so to say the problem is one thing and only that doesn't make any sense. Not only that but people will sign up for hundred megabit to gigabit internet but they only really need to watch some streams that use 3mb each. You can actually figur…

Not a network engineer by any measure - but I think if it was wifi contamination, it wouldn't get worse in the evenings. The routers are on 24/7. Thoughts?

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it doesn’t scale at all like this. There are companies selling sandwiches on private jets for $150/ea. Some people sell a candle for $5 at Target while others sell them for $45 at a farmer’s market. If you’re making websites for a living, it’s common advice to raise your prices to keep away people who aren’t very serious or who will balk at every expense. There are countless companies working with excellent pr…

None of those are monopolies, unless you consider someone selling a sandwich on a particular plane as a monopoly and the people on the plane are your market, in which case it is exactly this situation, and why that sandwich doesn't cost $100. So instead of trying to think of complications, you need to first understand the argument, and then you can see it everywhere once you understand it.

I’m simply saying it’s incorrect to assume that everything everywhere is as cheap as possible. This is true in MANY INDUSTRIES, but not everywhere, and it’s absolutely nothing like a rule.

You, I think, are tying it into a larger discussion about monopolies, but I’m not sure that makes sense because if you’re a monopoly, you don’t have competitors to beat on price, so you again would not charge the least amount possible. That makes no sense.

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