Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#611

Post by mexicocitinluez » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 4:59 PM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #514

mexicocitinluez wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> …but the Swiss seem to have decided it's worth the investment. West Virginia is 1.5x the size of the entire country of Switzerland. Let that sink in. Texas is 16x times bigger. The idea that it should be doable in a country that is 100x bigger, with 50 separate states, god knows how many individual counties because it could be done in vastly smaller one is where your problem is.

Yet somehow the US did manage to get power to most places... The thing with fiber is that it can go so much longer than copper without any active components. It is also very future proof, you won't be pulling it out of the ground/off the pole for at least 50 years if not longer. If size is such an issue, how did you get power?

> Yet somehow the US did manage to get power to most places...

You're not conflating 2 different infrastructure processes and ignoring the one took decades, are you? This is like saying "The US has built a road infrastructure why can't it do all light rails?"

The irony in your comment is that it government intervention, which is the opposite of a free market.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#612

Post by ryandrake » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 5:01 PM UTC

Sayrus wrote: post #527

d_sem wrote: post #517

The geographic and demographic orders of magnitude when comparing these two places makes it difficult to extrapolate applicability of best practices. Who's to say the Swiss model scales? Article doesn't convincingly address this. For context: 41 US States are geographically larger than Switzerland. It's most comparable state in area is West Virginia. West Virginia is .064% of the national area. Some fun distance cont…

Extrapolating with this method, large cities should be as well equipped as Switzerland. Los Angeles has 10x the population density of Switzerland and around the same population density in urban area. Same for Washington dc, San Francisco... It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing. Distance between cities may be large, but the order of magnitude is closer when comparing within cities.

Exactly. Whenever anyone trots out the "Bbbbut the USA is too large and sparsely populated to have X!" excuse, ask them why New Jersey doesn't have X.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#613

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 5:02 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #520

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or not if you want the threat to work a next time.

> not if you want the threat to work a next time You don’t care if it works next time. It worked this time. If it doesn’t work next time, build it next time.

[deleted]

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#614

Post by AdamJacobMuller » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 5:03 PM UTC

scraptor wrote: post #534

phkahler wrote: post #494

Switzerland is 1/6 the size of Michigan and has 90 percent as many people as Michigan (9M vs 10M). With a higher population density I'd expect better rollout of things like internet service. And that's just ONE average size US state - there are 50, some of which are larger with even fewer people. It's not really a fair comparison regardless of which business or political factors are in play.

So what's your excuse for why New York has equally bad internet?

City or state?

City: just take a walk through manhattan and in a block or two look at the giant open-pit excavation with a 200-year-old morass of undocumented infrastructure under the street. This is before you even try to run fiber up to units in buildings which were built before electricity was standard. I am hardly saying it can't be done, simply that it is not as easy as density makes it seem.

State: the exact opposite problem -- just drive two hours north of NYC and (if you're not still in manhattan) you'll be in some fantastic areas of the state, but, the exact opposite problem exists.

Of note, I do think both of these problems are solvable and we should fundamentally solve them. Just anybody who thinks it's easy or cheap to do so is being myopic. If spent wisely, could be a very useful investment of our money, however.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#615

Post by danny_codes » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 5:10 PM UTC

SubmarineClub wrote: post #581

fennecbutt wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but like 10x the population, 10x the GDP, etc. You're saying they laid down rail in the US from end to end during wild West times but modern infrastructure can't be built to the same scale even with mechanisation? Lmao sounds like the UK. It does make sense tho, the world is now filled with middlemen and getting any job done costs 10x because of parasites.

> You're saying they laid down rail in the US from end to end during wild West times At a time when labor was dirt cheap and safety regulations were non-existent. The railroads specifically used Chinese laborers who were treated, and paid, like shit.

And also a time when people were laying down ties with their hands and a hammer.

This isn’t a labor issue it’s purely political. Some people get rich from the status quo and bribe politicians to prevent competition. America is increasingly corrupt, particularly since citizens united and accelerating under the current admin

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#616

Post by CyberDildonics » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 5:10 PM UTC

eqvinox wrote: post #564

CyberDildonics wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's easy to claim, but there are a lot of places where everyone is surrounded by everyone else's wifi routers. If you have 9 routers that you share walls with and even more that can reach you, wifi starts to break down, but people will blame their service provider.

I've been there a bunch, my colleague has lived there. We work in the telco area. My own experiences I would question, his I don't. It's oversubscription. Can I provide citations or proof? No. That's extremely hard to do with oversubscription in general, no telco will admit their exact ratio without being forced to. Sometimes you can reverse engineer it from peering relationships, but that doesn't allow identifying b…

It's oversubscription.

You said that already, but repeating something isn't evidence. Oversubscription would be something that happens with cable internet on a node by node basis, so to say the problem is one thing and only that doesn't make any sense. Not only that but people will sign up for hundred megabit to gigabit internet but they only really need to watch some streams that use 3mb each.

You can actually figure out oversubscription if you ping nodes, especially over time.

There are more factors like international bandwidth, lack of caching servers in smaller countries so bandwidth has to be international, cable signal levels etc.

None of these come close to wifi contamination. If you have two neighbors trying to watch tv over wifi and you're trying to watch tv over wifi, you're sunk. Now take that to being surrounded by a dozen people, all watching tv over wifi and all watching videos on phones and tablets.

Unless someone is in a house, more isolated from their neighbors it is going to be a much bigger problem for almost everyone.

You can say 'oversubscription' because you're buddy said that, but even that can have some truth while still being a marginal issue next to the real problems. Even in places with great internet, people get a single wifi router, put all their computers and TVs on it, then blame their ISP.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#617

Post by danny_codes » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 5:11 PM UTC

maxglute wrote: post #604

pb7 wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guarantee you 99% of China landmass does not have 50G. Most of the country is ultra poor rice paddy farmers. Get real.

Not all landmass because most of Tibet/Xinjiang empty, but ~100% wireless coverage east of Heihe–Tengchong line where ~95% of population are. Including Tibet/Xinjiang remote areas, ~95%+ of administered population areas down to village level where poor farmers have access to 5g AND fiber hookup option by now. Building infra and networking gear is cheap in society that knows how to build and carriers are required to i…

Why have fiber for a $1 when you can have space fiber for $1000!

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#618

Post by mexicocitinluez » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 5:16 PM UTC

eqvinox wrote: post #555

mexicocitinluez wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> …but the Swiss seem to have decided it's worth the investment. West Virginia is 1.5x the size of the entire country of Switzerland. Let that sink in. Texas is 16x times bigger. The idea that it should be doable in a country that is 100x bigger, with 50 separate states, god knows how many individual counties because it could be done in vastly smaller one is where your problem is.

I'm sorry, but your stance is completely fing ridiculous. First of all, nobody is saying you need to do the entire US in one go by one approach and one provider. Second, the US has about 30× the GDP of Switzerland. Third, have you looked at Swiss geography? They're pulling fiber up the alps to the damn huts. Fourth, they're burying pretty much everything , as I said you don't really have to do that. Fifth, 26 cantons…

26 cantons with a functioning federal regulatory mandate isn't remotely comparable to 50 states where broadband regulation has been in a decade long battle over jurisdiction.

> Third, have you looked at Swiss geography? They're pulling fiber up the alps to the damn huts.

This is apples and oranges. The US is vastly more sparse. I think what is "f'ing ridiculous" is continuing to compare the 2 countries in ways they aren't comparable.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#619

Post by mexicocitinluez » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 5:18 PM UTC

Hikikomori wrote: post #544

mexicocitinluez wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much bigger is the US than Switzerland? Its like 200x the size of it. Do you think that it's size and division of 50 distinct states might make that task a bit tougher?

Was talking about Sweden. But it's ok, I know Americans find geography challenging.

My bad, I originally said Sweden, but then edited to say Switzerland after seeing the title and doubted myself.

It's okay, you don't have to argue with the point being made or anything.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#620

Post by Hikikomori » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 5:22 PM UTC

mexicocitinluez wrote: post #619

Hikikomori wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was talking about Sweden. But it's ok, I know Americans find geography challenging.

My bad, I originally said Sweden, but then edited to say Switzerland after seeing the title and doubted myself. It's okay, you don't have to argue with the point being made or anything.

I made the point elsewhere. Sweden is larger than California yet has only 10m population. Fiber is not just common in urban areas, you have it in small villages and even cabins in the woods.

Basically no state gets close, urban or otherwise. People here keep talking about size, rural, many states, whatever. The problem is really regulatory capture and monopolies, many states ban local municipalities from putting fiber down.