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Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

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Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#401

Post by goosejuice »

mech422 wrote: post #313
goosejuice wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're saying is conceptually true for subscription services in general, but thats not why they are making this change. There's a 5 hour limit and a weekly limit. Those are hard token limits. Everyone on a plan pays for the max set of tokens in that plan. The limits manage capacity. The solution to that isn't a change of ToS, it's adjusting the limits. In other words this is about Anthropic subsidizing their own…

This is what I've been wondering about for a while now. I have the 20x plan as well, which I thought would allow me to try some API coding - but you get zero API usage. As you said, I would imagine where the token usage comes from is irrelevant - you are generating the same load whether you do it from claude code or some other agent. So it seems like the rules are more to do with encouraging claude code usage, rather…

Claude code is still getting used by these agents. They banned the mimicry awhile ago and said claude -p was fine.

OpenClaw just happens to also get telemetry, of probably higher value, out of the same tokens. It also happens to be owned by their competitor.

edit: I'm wrong OpenClaw surprisingly doesn't collect telemetry. Good for them.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#402

Post by bergheim »

dimmke wrote: post #337
satvikpendem wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why "should" they? There's no reason they would especially when their competitor now owns OpenClaw.

Because a big part of Anthropic's story is that they build based on how people actually use AI. Power users aren't just annoying edge cases, they're signal. Throttling them and calling it done is inconsistent with that.

Oh the billion bollar vc backed pre ipo companys story was this? Omg and they somehow are not delivering up to your standards? Damn they better get their act together lest people like you will whine on twitter about them losing their way

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#403

Post by mech422 »

fyrecean wrote: post #339
mech422 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can write automated MCP tools that run within claude code, and could theoretically generate as high a load as any other automated/3rd party agent. You can also do loops that burn tokens incredibly fast. This is allowed with no caveats (I use MCP's basically to test what I'd like to try with the API...) So this explanation just seems a lil hollow.

While you can write an automated tool to consume all their tokens, I strongly suspect most users, like myself, are not doing that. So even if Anthropic loses money on a power user, they profit overall and keep public sentiment high by not alienating users with restrictions. It's an optimization problem of making a profit off the average used while staying low enough to attract customers, even if that means some users…

>>So even if Anthropic loses money on a power user, they profit overall and keep public sentiment high by not alienating users with restrictions

So they profit overall if I use all my tokens either way? Again, I understand usage limits - I just don't understand why some usage is 'good' and some 'bad' if I'm using the same either way.

>>More users spinning up OpenClaw

I'm pretty sure that's a small percentage of overall users, and probably skewed towards the very people that would be recommending/implementing you model for work/businesses. Seems like that would be the group you are encouraging/cultivating ?

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#404

Post by colechristensen »

mccoyb wrote: post #278
colechristensen wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At no point in the last 10,000 years of human civilization has there not been a developing technology that threatened to forever reshape and displace a class of labor. Or are you also upset about the modern plight of the telephone operator, farrier, or coal miner?

I see -- and AI is just like all technologies that came before it ... It is not a class of labor ... it is all digital labor. Do you or do you not understand this? It is digital knowledge itself, and then all communication labor, and then all physical labor with robotics. Is this clear to you?

And? Hyperbolic fear of change always exists and there's always been more work.

Marx' whole idea of Communism was predicted on the fact that he assumed industrialization would lead to a post-scarcity society requiring virtually no work and a overhaul of how everything was owned and produced. Boy was he wrong.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#405

Post by alwa »

mech422 wrote: post #320
jmalicki wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't paying to be using that limit all of the time. You are paying to be using that limit some of the time. There are 5 hour windows when you are sleeping and can't use it. There are weekend limits. Theoretically you can max out every 5 hour window, but they lose money on that. It's structured so users can have bursts of unlimited usage, and spend ~15% of the theoretical max cap, and that's still cheaper than a…

you can write automated MCP tools that run within claude code, and could theoretically generate as high a load as any other automated/3rd party agent. You can also do loops that burn tokens incredibly fast. This is allowed with no caveats (I use MCP's basically to test what I'd like to try with the API...) So this explanation just seems a lil hollow.

When you can’t enforce everything at once, you go where the most acute problems are. I imagine when your MCP avenue of abuse catches on—like this other category of harnesses did—to such a scale as to become a problem impacting us folk trying to go about our business… when that’s where the problems shift, I imagine (and hope) Anthropic will crack down on that vector too. To keep the service usable for us ordinary meatbags.

I’m glad they give us the leeway to experiment, and I’m also glad they weed the garden from time to time. To switch metaphors, I’m deeply frustrated when my very modest, commuter-grade use gets run off the figurative highway by figurative hot-rodders. It’s been extra-529y this week, and it’s about time they reined it in a little.

You’re always welcome to pay-as-you-go for as many tokens as you’d like to burn on their infrastructure… or to compute against any of the wide array of ever-improving open models on commodity compute providers…

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#406

Post by goosejuice »

gbear605 wrote: post #397
goosejuice wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Claude code has /loop. Claude app has scheduled tasks. The leaked source has a proactive mode. I'm sorry but this framing just doesnt make sense.

Even with those tools, the usage of Claude Code with all of them turned on is going to trend much lower than OpenClaw usage. Everyone that I've seen with OpenClaw will intentionally waste tokens just to make sure they hit the cap, even if they're doing useless stuff with it. And it can be going 24/7, every minute constantly, while the intended purpose with scheduled tasks is to use them at a set rate but not nearly c…

Definitely. They will see less usage. That's good for them because they have infra scaling issues that they don't care to admit explicitly. Their competitor will also get less telemetry (if they enable it). It's a win win.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#409

Post by Razengan »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #91
g-mork wrote: post #77

My answer to this is simply rolling back to the pro plan for interactive usage in the coming month, and forcefully cutting myself over to one of the alternative Chinese models to just get over the hump and normalise API pricing at a sensible rate with sensible semantics. Dealing with Claude going into stupid mode 15 times a day, constant HTTP errors, etc. just isn't really worth it for all it does. I can't see myself…

I literally hit my 5 hour window limit in 1.5 hours every single day now. 2 weeks ago, I had only hit my limit a single time and that was when I had multiple agents doing codebase audits.

I've been using Codex extensively, 5.4 at "Extra High" and yet to hit a limit. The $20 plan

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#410

Post by jatora »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #398

Claude is a UNIX command line tool with an SDK. Yes there's an interactive mode, but it can be invoked as a normal utility too, and piped to other tools and so on. In that context, I don't understand the difference between a "third party harness" and a shell script. How are they even detecting OpenClaw?

Im wondering this too. If I have my own local platform similar in nature to openclaw, and am leveraging claude -p through my subscription, is this now against ToS? Or is this just a ban specific to certain services? In which case they're saying 'use -p until you scale and then we'll hammer you'. Either way what a pita.
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