Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 928 posts

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#241

Post by zer00eyz »

"We dont crash ever" -- the social network.

If you haven't been paying attention anthropic burned a lot of their developer good will in the last 2 weeks, with some combination of bugs and rate limits.

But the writing is on the wall about how bad things are behind the scenes. The circa 2002 sentiment filter regex in their own tool should have been a major clue about where things stand.

The question every one should be asking at this point is this: is there an economic model that makes AI viable. The "bitter lesson" here is in AI's history: expert systems were amazing, but they could not be maintained at cost.

The next race is the scaling problem, and google with their memory savings paper has given a strong signal what the next 2 years of research are going to be focused on: scaling.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#242

Post by rhodysurf »

g-mork wrote: post #77

My answer to this is simply rolling back to the pro plan for interactive usage in the coming month, and forcefully cutting myself over to one of the alternative Chinese models to just get over the hump and normalise API pricing at a sensible rate with sensible semantics. Dealing with Claude going into stupid mode 15 times a day, constant HTTP errors, etc. just isn't really worth it for all it does. I can't see myself…

This is what I did, downgraded to pro and pay for opencode zen for the open models. I like the combo of the two

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#243

Post by happyopossum »

andai wrote: post #57
firloop wrote: post #47

This is slightly different from what OpenCode was banned from doing; they were a separate harness grabbing a user’s Claude Code session and pretending to be Claude Code. OpenClaw was still using Claude Code as the harness (via claude -p)[0]. I understand why Anthropic is doing this (and they’ve made it clear that building products around claude -p is disallowed) but I fear Conductor will be next. [0]: See “Option B:…

Why are they doing that? Opus is the only good way to run Claw. Do they regret making it cheaper or what? Also what's the point of Claude -p if not integration with 3rd party code? (They have a whole agents SDK which does the same thing.. but I think that one requires per token pricing.) I guess they regret supporting subscription auth on the -p flag

> Opus is the only good way to run Claw

that's a ridiculous position to take - gemini and others work just great with claw...

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#244

Post by chatmasta »

mirashii wrote: post #188
chatmasta wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We use Pi at work (where we pay per token) and I’d love to use it personally too. From what I’ve read, nobody has been banned for using Pi yet… I wonder if Anthropic minds this much as long as it’s still human usage, or if they’re mostly focused on stamping out the autonomous harnesses. Unfortunately Pi is also what OpenClaw uses so it could easily get swept up in the enforcement attention. Or maybe I’ll just get a C…

They have, but they also just announced this week that for business and enterprise plans, they’re switching from quotas for codex to token use based pricing, and I would expect that to eventually propagate to all their plans for all the same reasons.

I’d be surprised if that propagated to personal subscription plans, simply because it would put them at a huge competitive disadvantage against Anthropic, which they’ve already signaled they care about by saying they allow third-party harnesses. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they required third-party harnesses to use per-token billing, since that’d put them on par with Anthropic.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#245

Post by bsder »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #112
tekacs wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI have literally gone out of their way to explicitly support this sort of thing. As they did with OpenCode. Honestly, this just looks like what Dylan of SemiAnalysis suggested on Dwarkesh – that they've massively under-provisioned capacity / under-spent on infrastructure. That would honestly be a comforting answer if true, because I would gladly take 'we can't afford to do this right now' over 'we are self-prefe…

> we are self-preferencing, and the FTC should really take a look at us, even if we're technically not a monopoly right now Tell me you have zero clue what a monopoly is or what the law is, without telling me. Monopoly law relies on broad categories, not narrow ones. You can’t call Microsoft a monopoly because they are the only company that makes Windows. You can’t call Amazon a monopoly because they are the only com…

> Tell me you have zero clue what a monopoly is or what the law is, without telling me.

Monopoly law is subject to reinterpretation over time and anybody who has studied the history of it knows this. The only people argue for "strict" interpretations of current monopoly law are those who currently benefit from the status quo.

> Monopoly law relies on broad categories, not narrow ones.

And this is currently a gigantic problem. Because of relying on broad categories to define "monopoly", every single supply chain has been allowed to collapse into a small handful of suppliers who have no downstream capacity thanks to Always Late Inventory(tm). This prevents businesses from mounting effective competition since their upstream suppliers have no ability to support such activities thanks to over-optimization.

To be effective on the modern incarnation of businesses, monopoly law needs to bust every single consolidated narrow vertical over and over and over until they have enough downstream capacity to support competition again.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#246

Post by felipeerias »

goosejuice wrote: post #160
jesse_dot_id wrote: post #73

There seem to be a ton of people who don't understand how subscription services work. Every single one of them oversells their capacity. The power users that use the services a lot are subsidized by those who don't use it as much, which tends to be the vast majority of the user base. OpenClaw is an autonomous power user. The growing adoption of this walking attack surface was either going to A) cause the cost of Clau…

What you're saying is conceptually true for subscription services in general, but thats not why they are making this change. There's a 5 hour limit and a weekly limit. Those are hard token limits. Everyone on a plan pays for the max set of tokens in that plan. The limits manage capacity. The solution to that isn't a change of ToS, it's adjusting the limits. In other words this is about Anthropic subsidizing their own…

If they bundled together these two radically different usage patterns, either the service would become more expensive or the limits would become a lot tighter, in both cases making Claude Code far less attractive to professional users.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#247

Post by muyuu »

TillE wrote: post #220
muyuu wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it's surprising that they expected anything other than heavy utilisation at that price point. People don't subscribe at those prices and forget about it.

All these companies are offering quite generous subscription plans if you compare to API pricing. There's gotta be a limit; nobody can afford to have tons of users who are losing them money every month.

Perhaps. So let them come clean about what they can offer. At that price, people are going to make the best of their subscription whatever it is that's on offer.

Time to compete on value with the Chinese.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#248

Post by rovr138 »

muyuu wrote: post #240
jesse_dot_id wrote: post #73

There seem to be a ton of people who don't understand how subscription services work. Every single one of them oversells their capacity. The power users that use the services a lot are subsidized by those who don't use it as much, which tends to be the vast majority of the user base. OpenClaw is an autonomous power user. The growing adoption of this walking attack surface was either going to A) cause the cost of Clau…

It's one thing to pay $5 or $20 per month, which although it's a substantial difference, people pay that much for the convenience of having stuff ready and available - and it's a completely different thing to pay $200 per month. People don't pay that much for occasional usage and many/most people will organise themselves to use all or most of their weekly allowance when the expense is in that ballpark. If Anthropic m…

>They have to be honest about what they can offer for $200

Their expectation must have been a human using the service at a human capacity.

This is different from an automated agent orchestrating a ton of different agents at the same time doing a lot of things.

There is a difference.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#249

Post by zmmmmm »

beering wrote: post #219
zmmmmm wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> building products around claude -p But OpenClaw is not a product. It's just a pile of open source code that the user happens to choose to run. It's the user electing to use the functionality provided to them in the manner they want to. There's nothing fundamental to distinguish the user from running claude -p inside OpenClaw from them running it inside their own script. I've mostly defended Anthropic's position on…

Claude Code is not a platform and you’re not meant to be building on it. Netflix is also not a platform and you shouldn’t be running code (open source or not) to mass download Netflix movies either.

It's a reasonable comment, and I should be clear, I don't expect it to be a platform. But I do expect to be able to use its advertised features for any reasonable purpose they can support.

Where it leaves me is is sort of like the DoD - nobody should use Claude for anything. Because Anthropic has set as principle here that if they don't like what you do, they will interfere with your usage. There is no principle to guide you on what they might not like and therefore ban next. So you can't do anything you want to be able to rely on. If you need to rely on it, don't use Claude Code.

And to be clear, I'm not arguing at all against using their API per-token billed services.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#250

Post by xtracto »

j45 wrote: post #212
jmalicki wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't paying to be using that limit all of the time. You are paying to be using that limit some of the time. There are 5 hour windows when you are sleeping and can't use it. There are weekend limits. Theoretically you can max out every 5 hour window, but they lose money on that. It's structured so users can have bursts of unlimited usage, and spend ~15% of the theoretical max cap, and that's still cheaper than a…

Efficient token use will be the new code/vim golf. Whether it's human token use, or future OpenClaws

I've mention before that we should have a look at Telegraph/telegram speak. There was a HUGE industry in word efficiency at that time. There are hundreds of books.

I even think an LLM trained to communicate using telegram style might even be faster and way cheaper.

Post reply on HN