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Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

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Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#271

Post by mort96 »

numpad0 wrote: post #235
jorvi wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, this goes way beyond OSes. Look at the mobile YouTube client. The bottom navigation bar has the "+" create button stuffed right in the middle of it, larger than any other button. What % of users creates YouTube content? Probably In general, why don't apps have a "creator" toggle, off-by-default, that optimized the entire UI for viewing / consuming? Just how apps like Uber have either an entire separate app fo…

That's a terrible idea. The greatest thing about the Internet is that there's no segregation between creators and consumers. TV has it. Only TV program production companies can create shows. That literally undermine ... a lot of things. We don't need that.

There seems to be a pretty wide gulf between "segregate consumers and content creators" and "please let me make it so that I can remove/disable the huge central button I never use that takes up a lot of space and is super easy to accidentally hit"

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#272

Post by p_ing »

voidUpdate wrote: post #131
anthonylevine wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a ridiculous electric screwdriver So React, the most popular front-end library and used my hundreds of thousands of successful apps, is the ridiculous electric screwdriver? See how weird that sounds and makes it obvious you guys can't give an honest assessment?

React is a javascript library. Javascript needs its own runtime. Why not just write stuff in native windows controls and save having to run an entire javascript runtime for no reason?

.NET Framework needs its own runtime. Java needs its own runtime.

What's the issue?

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#273

Post by aleph_minus_one »

fainpul wrote: post #170
alexb_ wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people want a computer that works with their software. No, "learn the FOSS version" is not a solution. Especially because nearly everyone has some niche thing they like, some 5% that isn't covered by the FOSS solutions, that only a niche Windows program can actually do correctly. And that doesn't even get into gaming.

Then at least let the company that makes your niche software know that you want a Linux version of it, even if you don't use Linux (yet). We need to solve this chicken / egg problem. Nobody wants to use Windows, they want to use some specific application. If most software is available on Linux too, then consumers can actually choose their OS.

> Then at least let the company that makes your niche software know that you want a Linux version of it, even if you don't use Linux (yet). We need to solve this chicken / egg problem.

To solve the chicken/egg problem, the GNU/Linux distributions should generate some very (in particular binary) stable interface for writing applications (including GUI applications) on GNU/Linux - like WinAPI on Windows. With "stable" I mean "stable for at least 20-25 years". This interface must, of course, work on all widespread GNU/Linux distributions.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#274

Post by tasuki »

krater23 wrote: post #245
fainpul wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then at least let the company that makes your niche software know that you want a Linux version of it, even if you don't use Linux (yet). We need to solve this chicken / egg problem. Nobody wants to use Windows, they want to use some specific application. If most software is available on Linux too, then consumers can actually choose their OS.

I don't want windows or linux, I want a OS where I don't notice that it's there. When I have to think about my OS, then the OS has a flaw. And currently nor Windows or Linux can deliver that anymore. Windows 7 after some customizations and Windows XP had this, but M$ destroyed it. Linux never had this and I don't expect that this will come in the future.

> I want a OS where I don't notice that it's there.

I guess you want a Mac. That's fine.

I value freedom and things not mysteriously breaking and functionality not disappearing, and am quite happy investing a the time and knowledge upfront, so I use Linux.

And then there are people who want to have a system which works out of the box initially and who don't want to learn anything and don't mind it breaking later, and they choose Windows.

To each their own.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#275

Post by devilbunny »

lizknope wrote: post #169

I bought my first x86 PC in 1994 to install Linux on. I wanted a Sun workstation but couldn't afford it. I know people run an operating system to run programs on so it isn't easy to switch but so many windows users make it sound like they have Stockholm Syndrome. My advice as a Linux user of 32 years for normal people is to buy a Mac.

> for normal people is to buy a Mac

Thus, the MacBook Neo. For the average user who only occasionally needs a general-purpose computer, it's powerful enough. As the geek in my friends-and-family circle, it's what I will be recommending to most of them if they ask.

Most of them only use phones or tablets anyway.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#276

Post by mkup »

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Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#277

Post by jl6 »

autoexec wrote: post #242
alexb_ wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people want a computer that works with their software. No, "learn the FOSS version" is not a solution. Especially because nearly everyone has some niche thing they like, some 5% that isn't covered by the FOSS solutions, that only a niche Windows program can actually do correctly. And that doesn't even get into gaming.

> Most people want a computer that works with their software. I suspect that most people don't run much software at all outside of their web browser and wouldn't notice any difference between using chrome in windows and using chrome in linux. Gaming is not the barrier it used to be either.

Agreed. Default Ubuntu is pretty much feature complete for mainstream users, as long as they don’t have to install it themselves.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#278

Post by severak_cz »

dude250711 wrote: post #21
Macha wrote: post #7

It’s quite common for companies to work their way up to the line of the most user hostile version of their product that users will tolerate. Especially with software where they can just go flip a switch and turn off whatever feature did cross the line but keep everything they gained by inching up to the line, which seems to inevitably result in things like the condition of windows 11. I think the only way this gets b…

I think managers were promoted for infecting their features with Copilot, and developers for infecting them with React, and here we are. OneDrive managers on the other hand are one step away from inventing some way of adding a gacha mechanic.

Infecting with React can be easily explained by pathetic state of desktop application development environment.

See https://domenic.me/windows-native-dev/

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#279

Post by falcor84 »

fwip wrote: post #253
alexb_ wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even skipping the first step (which requires a second readme ) the next step involves opening a terminal. Instant fail. The entire point of an operating system is to make computers usable without knowing how they work, what a file is, what a command is, or having to look up anything. If something needs to be done, it needs a GUI. Linux is an important operating system, but anyone under the delusion that it is desktop…

I may be showing my grey hair here, but that's emphatically not the point of an operating system.

I disagree with the grandparent too, but still would argue that an OS's goal is to allow its users to manage their applications and work processes rather than their computer.

It's a hard question to figure out what's the proper level of abstraction for this is. And while I strongly resisted it originally, I am becoming more open to the argument that many people don't need to "know" what a file is, to benefit from their computers - that as long as they can "save" their work, and "send" it from one app to another, they'd be able to get all the productivity that they are looking for.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#280

Post by iugtmkbdfil834 »

alexb_ wrote: post #120
Ranxer wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better yet: don't pick any poison at all -- both System76 and Tuxedo Computers (as examples, sometimes you can buy a latop without an OS and save the money, same goes for PCs) offer laptops with Linux installed: no Microslop tax, and hardware that's guaranteed to work with OSS.

Most people want a computer that works with their software. No, "learn the FOSS version" is not a solution. Especially because nearly everyone has some niche thing they like, some 5% that isn't covered by the FOSS solutions, that only a niche Windows program can actually do correctly. And that doesn't even get into gaming.

It actually is. It may not be the best solution, but it absolutely is one of available solutions. = Not being able to ( or wiling to ) learn ( and adjust ) as needed is part of the reason we are here.

I am not being nitpicky here. Reasonable people don't hope things will change; instead, they change things they can.

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