Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

bsky.app

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

541–550 of 660 posts

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#541

Post by jacquesm »

mcv wrote: post #530
jacquesm wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Merkel has a lot to answer for. Handel durch wandel... pull the other one. After Grozny there should have been absolutely no doubt.

Eastern European countries warned us, but western Europe, Germany in particular, but other western European countries too, assumed Russia was now a normal country we could just trade with. Under Yeltsin we might have been heading in that direction, but Chechnya should have been a warning. Putin's comment about "countries that don't matter" was a warning. Russia taking chunks out of Georgia should have been the alarm.…

Politically, absolutely. Fortunately the intelligence communities are not as stupid as the politicians they serve.

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#542

Post by jacquesm »

jemmyw wrote: post #534
keiferski wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am equally dismayed at recent US behavior; but this is a short sighted view. 1. Geopolitics is always unpredictable. Maybe the US has been unreliable lately, but the idea that there are states out there which have been bastions of reliability is not historically accurate. All great powers have screwed people over or made disastrous decisions. It’s mostly just the US’s turn now. 2. This all happened 20 years ago wit…

> This all happened 20 years ago with Iraq. I think your argument falls apart here. The US built a coalition of on side allies before invading Iraq. They went to the UN too. There was significant opposition to the war, and I was a student at the time in the UK so was surrounded and involved in that. However, European countries were not politically blindsided. Some were going in with the US, including Denmark I believ…

They also didn't quite expect the USA to be blatantly lying about the intelligence that they brought to support their case.

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#543

Post by jacquesm »

fulafel wrote: post #516
jacquesm wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU absolutely is a military alliance as well.

That's a heterodox interpretation. Something akin to it was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_Union but it's no more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_and_defense_pacts_of_...

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/collecti...

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#544

Post by sph »

Vaslo wrote: post #357
jacquesm wrote: post #3

Of course they were. The United States has never before damaged its own reputation in Europe as much as they did in the last 12 months. And the same goes for Canada, possibly worse. You don't go around threatening your allies unless you really have plans and that's why you don't elect senile old guys to positions of power.

As an American, can’t say I’m too worried about Canadian opinion of us, let alone Denmark. Most Americans don’t know the name of a single politician in Denmark.

As a non-American, it’s attitudes like yours, quite widespread actually, that make me rejoice this moment in history where the US is taken down a peg or two.

It’s not gonna be nice and fun for anybody, but it’s time to learn that you guys are just one country in a whole world, and you need friends to thrive. The ignorant bully attitude has run its course.

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#545

Post by KaiserPro »

ericmay wrote: post #535
KaiserPro wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while ignoring other incredibly important products and services that you can’t or are unwilling to boycott. Its about operational risk. right now AWS is a key dependency, if that get turns off, we're fucked. we have mixed estate of end user devices, so its hard to turn them all off at once.

You're indulging in catastrophe fantasy. If AWS gets "turned off" (the implication being the US is doing some big mean thing against all of Europe) for European countries then something absolutely catastrophic has happened and you're going to be hoping you have heat, electricity, food, and water. If AWS gets "turned off" your MacBook Pro isn't going to work anymore because obviously the US will just whoops turn that…

What do I mean by "turned off"?

Right now if I want to process data in compliance with GDPR, I need to make sure there are sample clauses that provide equivalence in data protection standards.

Those clauses only hold if the US and EU agree that they won't fuck with them.

but thats fairly fragile.

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#546

Post by closewith »

jacquesm wrote: post #539
closewith wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is not a megalith, there is no central authority to make any kind of decision, and no Government in the bloc has a mandate to destroy it's citizens quality of life and economy by engaging in armed conflict with the US. This includes Denmark, who would not have fought the US, as much as they tried to put on a show.

Which part of 'and not a shot would be fired' is so hard to understand. There are so many ways to tell another party that maybe they should tend their own house for a bit.

Are you talking about economic warfare? Too many EU nations are completely dependent on the US economically and it only takes one veto.

The reality would be lots of denunciations, some token measures, followed by Business As Usual. Ireland, Poland, Germany, Spain aren't sacrificing their entire economies for Greenland.

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#547

Post by srean »

sph wrote: post #538
srean wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate ? Intrigued.

No USSR = no Cold War = no space race which lands us on the moon

Ah ! makes sense.

Meta point, I know it's considered line noise to respond to a comment with "I see", "I agree", "Yes".

But just upvoting seems so unsatisfying. Almost rude, like standing someone up who actually took the time to answer you.

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#548

Post by ericmay »

KaiserPro wrote: post #545
ericmay wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're indulging in catastrophe fantasy. If AWS gets "turned off" (the implication being the US is doing some big mean thing against all of Europe) for European countries then something absolutely catastrophic has happened and you're going to be hoping you have heat, electricity, food, and water. If AWS gets "turned off" your MacBook Pro isn't going to work anymore because obviously the US will just whoops turn that…

What do I mean by "turned off"? Right now if I want to process data in compliance with GDPR, I need to make sure there are sample clauses that provide equivalence in data protection standards. Those clauses only hold if the US and EU agree that they won't fuck with them. but thats fairly fragile.

It's also, frankly, very unimportant in the context of the geopolitical and geostrategic "USA has lost soft power" discussion that's being had.

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#549

Post by fulafel »

jacquesm wrote: post #543
fulafel wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a heterodox interpretation. Something akin to it was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_Union but it's no more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_and_defense_pacts_of_... https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/collecti...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_alliances

The EU treaty has a clause that calls for assistance for part of the members (who are not neutral) but there's no military structure outside NATO.

There's also a perpatual public debate about whether EU should become a military alliance. eg https://theloop.ecpr.eu/can-the-eu-form-an-autonomous-milita...

In practical terms, in event of a invasion, only NATO has a organisation set up for coordinated response.

Re: Denmark was reportedly preparing for full-scale war with the US over Greenland

#550

Post by vrganj »

closewith wrote: post #546
jacquesm wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part of 'and not a shot would be fired' is so hard to understand. There are so many ways to tell another party that maybe they should tend their own house for a bit.

Are you talking about economic warfare? Too many EU nations are completely dependent on the US economically and it only takes one veto. The reality would be lots of denunciations, some token measures, followed by Business As Usual. Ireland, Poland, Germany, Spain aren't sacrificing their entire economies for Greenland.

I think you're thoroughly misreading the state of affairs here in Europe.
Post reply on HN