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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#321

Post by SenHeng »

parl_match wrote: post #133
mullingitover wrote: post #77

I'm convinced that the Japanese government is terrified of EVs because all the small and medium-sized businesses which support the Japanese auto industry will be absolutely gutted when vehicles contain drastically fewer parts. That, and Japan is deeply screwed if they go all-in on EVs and then China decides they shouldn't be allowed access to any more rare earths.

> I'm convinced that the Japanese government is terrified of EVs because all the small and medium-sized businesses which support the Japanese auto industry will be absolutely gutted when vehicles contain drastically fewer parts. For what it's worth, this theory is blown up by hydrogen based vehicles, which Japan has gone heavily in on. Yes, slightly more parts than an EV, but not a ton. And the drivetrain is electric…

It really shows the bias in Honda’s management here. They’ve also spent years trying to develop and promote their hydrogen fuel cell cars and it’s just as much of a failure as their EV division yet they aren’t axing that golden child.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#322

Post by spicymaki »

yndoendo wrote: post #191
bwestergard wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"exporting your own oil and gas to be able to have a 'clean' (and up to recently heavily subsidized) transportation network is in a way just a gigantic bookkeeping trick" How so? If every oil exporter used some of their oil revenue to switch to EVs, that would, all things equal, hasten the transition to EVs. The U.S. is not doing that.

I still find it funny when it comes to oil between the USA and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia started moving the electrical system to renewables where USA is doubling down on fossil fuels. Saudi Arabia is the drug dealer that knows you don't consumer your own supply unless you must were the USA consumes the crack they sell. My next vehicle will 100% be pure EV, not Tesla.

Like the drug dealers where I grew up they are making the neighborhood a really terrible place to live. They might have a nice house right now, but the homes around them are burning.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#323

Post by cloudfudge »

LooseMarmoset wrote: post #205
viccis wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Now that the CAFE standards have been rendered toothless Can you elaborate on this? I'd love to have a cheap small truck like they used to make, but CAFE largely killed those.

CAFE killed small trucks in part, tariffs in another part, but US manufacturers are the real reason small trucks are dead. US manufacturers want margins, and they're not getting margins on little, efficient cars. They get enormous margins on gigantic trucks that start at $55,000. Have you noticed that all the sub $20k cars went away from all the manufacturers around COVID? Ford makes the Maverick, which is a small tr…

I got a new Maverick last year for $24.5k.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#324

Post by Retric »

rob74 wrote: post #266
appreciatorBus wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the drug dealer that knows you don't consumer your own supply unless you must So true. There's nothing incompatible at all with: a) realizing that earth has gifted you with a valuable but limited & polluting energy source b) realizing that you'd be foolish to get you own country hooked on it, but it's not a bad business if you can get other countries hooked on it. Instead we get oil rich areas seemingly determined…

Wow, so now the US oil barons who lobbied Trump to kill renewables and EVs are even worse than Mohammed "Bonesaw*" bin Salman Al Saud? That's really something, if you look at it that way... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Jamal_Khashog...

How you use worse implies a wider judgment than how someone behaves on a single issue. Real people are more complicated than Disney characters.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#325

Post by cyanydeez »

rkagerer wrote: post #308

Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time. No thank you. Not sure why the author frames this as a good thing. They've been bamboozled by the automakers and have got it backwards - you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled,…

It's techcrunch. The angle of software-everything has to be there.

Why honda is killing EVs is directly related to just how damn cheap Chinese EVs have become and how stupid Americans are when it comes to EV efficiency. Who the hell wants large vehicles for EV when the best solutions are small efficient vehicles with long drive times.

Americans distort the market and margins, and Honda was never in the large SUV game.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#326

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

beaviskhan wrote: post #69
johanvts wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you are coming from a US perspective, because smaller economical EVs are available in europe and dominate in asia. America car companies have managed to make a 50k+ truck the average new car purchase. They aren’t going to kill that golden calf voluntarily. Instead they have managed to lock out the competition. Why Musk elected to build another truck instead of the promised model 2 is beyond me. Besides, with…

Don't forget maintenance costs in the TCO calculation too. Transmissions, fuel pumps, timing belts, radiators (mostly), fuel injectors, emissions systems, etc are all out of the picture in an EV. Servicing those things may be infrequent but is often extremely expensive.

> Don't forget maintenance costs in the TCO calculation too.

OK? Then don’t forget to add a replacement battery, replacement battery heating and cooling system, factor in a few extra sets of tires over a lifetime of the vehicle, you can also assume the suspension will wear out earlier, so at least ball joints if not also struts.

I’m an automotive EE, there is no free lunch.

I have a car we just got rid of in our research shop, in order to replace the battery the entire rear suspension and half of the interior had to come out. To an insurance agency, the car was literally totaled between the cost of the battery and the labor to replace it.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#327

Post by bryanlarsen »

scuff3d wrote: post #249
bryanlarsen wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it's not really increasing anymore EV's are a half trillion dollar market (20 million cars annually, average selling price $25K) that increased by 20% in 2025. That's a massive increase in a massive market. It's not the 50% per annum we were seeing earlier, but 20% of a big number is often more impressive than 50% of a big market.

It's not that simple, some markets are slowing down and others are accelerating. Two of Honda's biggest markets are Japan and the US. The US is cooling on EVs with incentives and regulation changes making adoption less urgent. Japan already has an extremely low adoption rate. So the incentives for Honda to invest heavily just aren't there right now. Other manufacturers are also pulling back. Ford is cutting way back…

It's too soon to tell on America. In Germany sales pulled back temporarily after the loss of subsidies -- most people who were looking at buying an EV pulled their purchase forward to before the subsidy went away but then after a while growth resumed. 2025 EV sales in Germany without subsidies were higher than 2023 EV sales with subsidies after being down in 2024. I expect the same thing to happen for 2027 US EV sales.

In Japan, it's more a matter of not having good domestic options. Japanese people don't buy non-Japanese cars. When the Leaf was selling well world-wide, it sold well in Japan. But it's been a few years since the Leaf sold well anywhere. Now with good Toyota options and spiking gas prices I expect EV's to pick up in Japan. Nowhere is more dependent than Japan on the straight of Hormuz.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#328

Post by dzonga »

I think Japanese automakers by sticking to ICE vehicles have admitted defeat - that they no longer have the engineering prowess to compete.

they dominated in the era of small engines.

with EVs - the Chinese have run away with the stick & sadly no one is catching up.

I wish the Japanese made good EVs - Germans are the only ones besides the Chinese making decent EVs

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#330

Post by cladopa »

TrackerFF wrote: post #85

I live in a top EV market, Norway. ICE cars have been planned out for years now, and something like 96% of all new cars in Norway were EV last year. Basically, if you plan on keeping selling ICE cars, you're removing yourself from the market here. There's no future for new personal ICE cars here. I figure most other countries will be the same.

Oh yeah, because Norway is very representative of the world...

A country that is bigger than half Spain with 10 times less population with one of the lowest electrify prices of the entire world(5-8 dollars MWh) because of huge hydro resources.

A country with huge capital reserves precisely because of oil resources.

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