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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#261

Post by bluGill »

yndoendo wrote: post #191
bwestergard wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"exporting your own oil and gas to be able to have a 'clean' (and up to recently heavily subsidized) transportation network is in a way just a gigantic bookkeeping trick" How so? If every oil exporter used some of their oil revenue to switch to EVs, that would, all things equal, hasten the transition to EVs. The U.S. is not doing that.

I still find it funny when it comes to oil between the USA and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia started moving the electrical system to renewables where USA is doubling down on fossil fuels. Saudi Arabia is the drug dealer that knows you don't consumer your own supply unless you must were the USA consumes the crack they sell. My next vehicle will 100% be pure EV, not Tesla.

The US is moving the grid renewable. The guys at top might not think so and yell loudly not to, but they can't stop things, only put the brakes on a little.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#262

Post by jeffbee »

bdangubic wrote: post #82
beaviskhan wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget maintenance costs in the TCO calculation too. Transmissions, fuel pumps, timing belts, radiators (mostly), fuel injectors, emissions systems, etc are all out of the picture in an EV. Servicing those things may be infrequent but is often extremely expensive.

I think this is the biggest thing that non-EV owners do not understand. Or perhaps they do but not the full scope because money is spent little by little over the years. the oil changes, brakes, belts, starters, alternators, whatevers… I have 2014 Tesla S and I literally spent practically nothing for 11 years. I had to put in a new modem, replaced 12V battery twice and that’s about it. Still on original brakes (102k…

I hear a lot of Teslas banging around corners in my town and it leads me to believe that EV drivers freed from annual dealer maintenance actually believe that tie rod ends don't need to be inspected and replaced.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#263

Post by jeffbee »

randerson wrote: post #88
nytesky wrote: post #6

Honda is an engine company at its heart. It makes very reliable, long lived engines. They refine technology not really invent it (maybe invented VTEC). The transition to EV will be very gradual, I don’t even think we have enough rare earth metals and electrical grid capacity to go even twice as fast in adoption? Honda is waiting for the standards and technology to settle out and become commodity technology, then they…

> I don’t even think we have enough rare earth metals and electrical grid capacity to go even twice as fast in adoption I also have some concerns about our grid, but not from EVs. AI is already consuming more 5% of the grid, more than twice that of EVs (~2%), and is growing far faster. I've seen estimates as high as 17% of the grid by 2030. Most EVs are also charged in off-peak hours when there's plenty of capacity.

That's worst-case +600TWh by 2030. The US electrical grid also expanded by +600TWh between 1983 and 1990. Did you panic at that time and, if not, why not?

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#264

Post by jumpalongjim »

sys_64738 wrote: post #189

Anything you need to plug into a power source is doomed to fail. EVs are simply not designed properly which is why hybrids are the best of both world. A Camry hybrid has some genius technology as the EV part is used at low speed and ICE at higher speed. That is the perfect balance and you see why it's a success for them. Toyota make the best hybrid vehicles. Honda makes hybrids too so they're not throwing all their E…

Whether or not your analysis is correct (I'd say not), the root problem is Chinese manufacturing dominance and unfair competitive advantage when it comes to EVs. It saddens me to say it, but the legacy car companies are unable to pivot and are likely doomed.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#265

Post by alliao »

To be honest, I have every faith in Honda. It took them a long time to arrive at hybrid, but they were never about first to market, but they were always adamant about controlling the entire technology stack.. made their own transmission and everything. And engineering doesn't faze them, Honda just nonchalantly displayed a reusable rocket like it was too easy... EV is a little bit like AI nowadays, not much moat and possibly not challenging enough for Honda R&D so why not. I'll always be on the look out for Honda's next take on EV.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#266

Post by rob74 »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #202
yndoendo wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still find it funny when it comes to oil between the USA and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia started moving the electrical system to renewables where USA is doubling down on fossil fuels. Saudi Arabia is the drug dealer that knows you don't consumer your own supply unless you must were the USA consumes the crack they sell. My next vehicle will 100% be pure EV, not Tesla.

> the drug dealer that knows you don't consumer your own supply unless you must So true. There's nothing incompatible at all with: a) realizing that earth has gifted you with a valuable but limited & polluting energy source b) realizing that you'd be foolish to get you own country hooked on it, but it's not a bad business if you can get other countries hooked on it. Instead we get oil rich areas seemingly determined…

Wow, so now the US oil barons who lobbied Trump to kill renewables and EVs are even worse than Mohammed "Bonesaw*" bin Salman Al Saud? That's really something, if you look at it that way...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Jamal_Khashog...

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#267

Post by dbg31415 »

> It makes really good engines, and that's starting to matter less and less.

Maybe. But here's the thing... most cars today feel completely lifeless.

Honda knows how to build an engine and wrap it in a car that actually makes you feel something. That still matters.

Anyone here driven an S2000?

It's still the best car I've ever owned. Light, raw, grippy, and genuinely fun -- every drive felt like an event, not just transportation. (And it was still an affordable car!)

They killed it around 2010. I've never found anything that captures that same feeling since, at any price point.

So yeah -- Honda will always have a place in my heart. When they want to, they build something truly special.

Here's one of their marketing films they can use to find inspiration again.

* Failure: The Secret to Success - A Honda Documentary - YouTube // https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOVig5H7UbM

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#268

Post by BeetleB »

phainopepla2 wrote: post #192
speedgoose wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t like active safety features ? Even if you think you are great and better than most, don’t you think it would be neat that the other drivers you share the roads with have active safety features ? So they don’t crash into you or run over your kids?

I am convinced that some safety features (such as lane assist, for example), actually make roads less safe on net, because they allow or encourage drivers to be less engaged in the act of driving. But then, if it were up to me we'd all be driving manual transmissions.

> I am convinced that some safety features (such as lane assist, for example), actually make roads less safe on net, because they allow or encourage drivers to be less engaged in the act of driving.

"Birth control leads to riskier behavior and more pregnancies."

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#269

Post by jacquesm »

rob74 wrote: post #266
appreciatorBus wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the drug dealer that knows you don't consumer your own supply unless you must So true. There's nothing incompatible at all with: a) realizing that earth has gifted you with a valuable but limited & polluting energy source b) realizing that you'd be foolish to get you own country hooked on it, but it's not a bad business if you can get other countries hooked on it. Instead we get oil rich areas seemingly determined…

Wow, so now the US oil barons who lobbied Trump to kill renewables and EVs are even worse than Mohammed "Bonesaw*" bin Salman Al Saud? That's really something, if you look at it that way... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Jamal_Khashog...

Either you're too smart for me or I just can't follow you, but could you please expand a bit on your comment? I find it hard to link it to the parent, but I realize that may be on me.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#270

Post by sys_64738 »

darknavi wrote: post #197
sys_64738 wrote: post #189

Anything you need to plug into a power source is doomed to fail. EVs are simply not designed properly which is why hybrids are the best of both world. A Camry hybrid has some genius technology as the EV part is used at low speed and ICE at higher speed. That is the perfect balance and you see why it's a success for them. Toyota make the best hybrid vehicles. Honda makes hybrids too so they're not throwing all their E…

> Anything you need to plug into a power source is doomed to fail. Totally disagree. One of the reasons I drive an EV is so I _can_ plug it in and never go to a gas station again. What a useless exercise and waste of my time, especially for a penny-pincher like me who would wait in like for 20 minutes at Costco for gas.

Plugging it in is why it is so awful. It takes ages to charge it and you don't get very much range for a full charge. Battery technology is so incredibly poor right now and EV manufacturers are just plain dumb until they make the body of the car harness the sun's rays.
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