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The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

lesswrong.com

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Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#81

Having done IVF with my wife I think this is the most underrated fertility advice available today. I don't understand why governments of countries with increasing average age and low birth rate don't pay for this for all women. This is one the best pro-family policies that can be implemented.

I went through it with my wife too and expecting a 19 y/o women to go through the IVF process as an insurance policy is a bit insane to me. In our modern, western society, this is age is still solidly childhood with not much definitive thoughts of future family, marriage, etc. Governments need to make COL more affordable, birth rate will go up naturally

Calling 19 "childhood" is crazy. Most teens have an understanding of what they want their life to look like.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#82
post #6

If you're curious what it's like for a couple of normies doing IVF, I wrote down our experience here to the degree I remembered: https://wiki.roshangeorge.dev/w/IVF

If I'm understanding that right, it cost $25k per run, and you did 3 runs, so $75k total? Or was it $25k for the full thing? Did insurance cover anything?

I went through this with my partner and it cost around CAD $30K all-in. Thankfully it was 100% covered by insurance (for the drugs) and by a provincial program (for the procedure).

The drugs for stimulating follicle growth cost around $500/day and the first cycle didn't result in enough mature follicles to be worth attempting the egg harvesting. In the second attempt, the duration was extended after a scan to let more develop. Every extra day, is an another $500.

If it weren't for the government program we were seriously looking at going to one of the many clinics in Mexico offering these services.

We weren't so lucky with the numbers though; here's significant attrition at every step and if you aren't starting with a good number it can look like: 5 follicles > 4 mature eggs > 2 embryos > 1 child

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#83
post #59
post #35

I don't see a very big reason mentioned: You might not need it at all. Sure, the optimal age to freeze might be 19, but if 80% of women are done with children by age 30, why would you have every woman spend the equivalent of buying a small car on something they're overwhelmingly not going to need? Waiting to get a good balance of "your eggs are still reasonably healthy" and "if you haven't had kids until now, it'll p…

Apparently the harvesting procedure typically (but not always?) involves general anesthesia. That alone is never entirely risk-free. In this context, the temporary loss of bodily autonomy could be particularly problematic. All that comes on top of the required hormone treatment. It's not a trivial procedure. On the other hand, it may be a useful tool to resist expectations to become a mother until it becomes socially…

There's no way it's a worthwhile investment to invest thousands of dollars and take on significant risk and discomfort just for a tool to "resist expectations." You should invest that in a therapist. Or moving to a different state.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#84

Since having kids is so tiring in the early years and often lead to a divorce, it is better to have them early when you are still fresh and handle better the lack of sleep, divorce early and then enjoy part time parenthood when you are still youngish. I feel I am a better parent now that I am sharing custody of my kids and can better balance personal life and hobbies and parenthood. A cheaper option would be to find…

I’m vastly happier having had kids in my 30s rather than my 20s. Greater emotional and financial stability as well as a strong foundation for my marriage were boons.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's possible to convert stem cells or skin cells into functional egg cells (ova) in lab settings, though the technology remains experimental and not yet ready for routine clinical use

I'm always reading about amazing stuff like this with modern medicine. Things that work great in lab settings: cures for cancer, organ scaffolding, regrowing teeth, etc etc. Never hear about it again after the initial news.

"Regrowing teeth" started human trials last June. Development takes time.

And there is no single cure to cancer.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#86

It's wild that in the year 2026 modern science can't recreate a SINGLE cell (which is what a human egg/ovum is).

I honestly don't look forward to the day that we can do that. It may redefine our very existence more so than even automation.

That's exactly why I look forward to it!

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most 19 year olds probably wouldn't opt into injecting themselves twice a day for weeks and dealing with the side effects of the injections, then the subsequent extraction procedures (likely for multiple rounds) even if it was paid for. Which is reasonable, considering most women who want children will have them without IVF and don't need to go through any of that.

Doesn't that just make it a cheaper policy to implement, since very few will take advantage of it?

It's not only hard and painful, but potentially damaging to the woman's body and could leave them with permanent hormonal issues.

So, no. It's not a good policy.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went through it with my wife too and expecting a 19 y/o women to go through the IVF process as an insurance policy is a bit insane to me. In our modern, western society, this is age is still solidly childhood with not much definitive thoughts of future family, marriage, etc. Governments need to make COL more affordable, birth rate will go up naturally

Calling 19 "childhood" is crazy. Most teens have an understanding of what they want their life to look like.

At least with people in my circle of the US, it feels like there's an increasing infantilizing of people (frequently themselves, I'm a bit guilty of this), particularly in regards to things like marriage and raising a family. Yet, by 19 you'll have either made decisions for yourself or someone else has for you, that will likely put you on track for your entire future career direction (education, interests, college choice, maybe even enlisted in the military).

You don't need to have given "definitive thought" to your entire future to not be a child anymore.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#89
post #66
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common question we get. I will ask her again and add it there, but she described: * feeling bloated during the process (and feeling heavy in the stomach) * the discomfort of the actual injections (there are two daily) * pain post-retrieval that was reminiscent of cramps One of our other friends who had many eggs retrieved on a single cycle actually got ovarian torsion which is supposed to be outrageously pa…

thanks for sharing that's helpful. I've heard similar to more moderate ill effects from the therapy

This video on YT explains the not much talked about side effects and risks that can come from egg retrieval. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAMrwAGR3GA

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents and my spouse's parents were all in their late 30s having children, now we're in the same position due to infertility and now finally going through IVF. We're happy it's working but at the same time it's sad knowing they'll grow up never really knowing their grandparents.

The grandparent situation is sad af. It's also pretty sad being a mid-40s year old dad that doesn't have the energy to keep up with their kid. I pitched a little league game yesterday and it wiped me out. Also, the fact I (and you) will not know our grandchildren very well also is quite sad. If my son has his first kid the same age I had him, I'll be in my 80s when that kid is starting little league (or that age). Th…

If you had kids earlier, you wouldn't get more time with the specific person you love that is your son, you'd get more time with a different son. No doubt you'd love your counterfactual son too. But you shouldn't feel bad for having done any wrong by your real kid. This is the only timeline he could exist in.

Bit of a thorny philosophical argument, maybe, but reasonable in this case.

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