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The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

lesswrong.com

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Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#51

Post by conductr »

davidelettieri wrote: post #25

Having done IVF with my wife I think this is the most underrated fertility advice available today. I don't understand why governments of countries with increasing average age and low birth rate don't pay for this for all women. This is one the best pro-family policies that can be implemented.

I went through it with my wife too and expecting a 19 y/o women to go through the IVF process as an insurance policy is a bit insane to me. In our modern, western society, this is age is still solidly childhood with not much definitive thoughts of future family, marriage, etc.

Governments need to make COL more affordable, birth rate will go up naturally

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#52

Post by SoftTalker »

stavros wrote: post #36
SoftTalker wrote: post #21

It's also the optimal age to have children. Fertility is highest, the woman is likely healthy and strong, lowest risk of complications.

It's also the optimal age to not have children! You're still figuring out your life, probably no stable partner or job, time to do some stuff you'll regret later, etc.

Yes, I was only speaking biologically.

"Figuring out your life" was not a thing when humans evolved.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#53

Post by alistairSH »

davidelettieri wrote: post #25

Having done IVF with my wife I think this is the most underrated fertility advice available today. I don't understand why governments of countries with increasing average age and low birth rate don't pay for this for all women. This is one the best pro-family policies that can be implemented.

We, in the US, don't even have universal day care, or hundreds of other sensible things that would make child-rearing easy/less expensive. Jumping straight to "let's cover expensive IVF programs" is... well a big leap.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#54

Post by phyzix5761 »

conductr wrote: post #51
davidelettieri wrote: post #25

Having done IVF with my wife I think this is the most underrated fertility advice available today. I don't understand why governments of countries with increasing average age and low birth rate don't pay for this for all women. This is one the best pro-family policies that can be implemented.

I went through it with my wife too and expecting a 19 y/o women to go through the IVF process as an insurance policy is a bit insane to me. In our modern, western society, this is age is still solidly childhood with not much definitive thoughts of future family, marriage, etc. Governments need to make COL more affordable, birth rate will go up naturally

We definitely need better COL but I'm not convinced it's is the main factor for low birth rates as most countries living in poverty have very high birth rates. I think its a cultural difference that values earlier marriage and heavy family involvement in raising children which, the latter, reduces the stress of having to parent by yourself.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#55

Post by conductr »

morkalork wrote: post #37
yosefk wrote: post #20

The optimal age to have children is way before you need to rely on frozen eggs (one reason among many being that this process doesn't always work)

My parents and my spouse's parents were all in their late 30s having children, now we're in the same position due to infertility and now finally going through IVF. We're happy it's working but at the same time it's sad knowing they'll grow up never really knowing their grandparents.

The grandparent situation is sad af. It's also pretty sad being a mid-40s year old dad that doesn't have the energy to keep up with their kid. I pitched a little league game yesterday and it wiped me out. Also, the fact I (and you) will not know our grandchildren very well also is quite sad.

If my son has his first kid the same age I had him, I'll be in my 80s when that kid is starting little league (or that age). Then, factor in the fact that I don't know of any men in my family that have lived past 80 and it gets really grim. They were all heavy smokers and drinkers I remind myself with fingers crossed.

The most sad part for me, is I realized by delaying parenthood - I was just being selfish - and the net result is I minimized "shared time on earth" with the person I love the most. It's easy to say I wouldn't have been a good parent or I wanted X job/income first, but it's all just excuses and selfishness.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#56

Post by ElevenLathe »

drakonka wrote: post #44
davidelettieri wrote: post #25

Having done IVF with my wife I think this is the most underrated fertility advice available today. I don't understand why governments of countries with increasing average age and low birth rate don't pay for this for all women. This is one the best pro-family policies that can be implemented.

Most 19 year olds probably wouldn't opt into injecting themselves twice a day for weeks and dealing with the side effects of the injections, then the subsequent extraction procedures (likely for multiple rounds) even if it was paid for. Which is reasonable, considering most women who want children will have them without IVF and don't need to go through any of that.

Doesn't that just make it a cheaper policy to implement, since very few will take advantage of it?

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#57

Post by DANmode »

the_real_cher wrote: post #12
jokowueu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's possible to convert stem cells or skin cells into functional egg cells (ova) in lab settings, though the technology remains experimental and not yet ready for routine clinical use

I'm always reading about amazing stuff like this with modern medicine. Things that work great in lab settings: cures for cancer, organ scaffolding, regrowing teeth, etc etc. Never hear about it again after the initial news.

Are you looking for an explanation,

or a fix,

for this?

(The fix is to consume less popular science types of sources.)

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#58

Post by umeshunni »

delfinom wrote: post #45
stavros wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also the optimal age to not have children! You're still figuring out your life, probably no stable partner or job, time to do some stuff you'll regret later, etc.

Biological optimal vs societal optimal.

I would reframe it from

> Biological optimal vs societal optimal

to

> Biological optimal vs personal optimal

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#59

Post by fweimer »

stavros wrote: post #35

I don't see a very big reason mentioned: You might not need it at all. Sure, the optimal age to freeze might be 19, but if 80% of women are done with children by age 30, why would you have every woman spend the equivalent of buying a small car on something they're overwhelmingly not going to need? Waiting to get a good balance of "your eggs are still reasonably healthy" and "if you haven't had kids until now, it'll p…

Apparently the harvesting procedure typically (but not always?) involves general anesthesia. That alone is never entirely risk-free. In this context, the temporary loss of bodily autonomy could be particularly problematic. All that comes on top of the required hormone treatment. It's not a trivial procedure.

On the other hand, it may be a useful tool to resist expectations to become a mother until it becomes socially acceptable to say no. So it might be important even if the eggs are not getting used.

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