Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 461 posts

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#191

Post by xvector »

freejazz wrote: post #14
6Az4Mj4D wrote: post #3

Leaving autonomous weapons aside, how does Anthropic justifies that they signed up with surveillance company Palantir and now raising concerns for same surveillance with DoD? It doesn't match.

[flagged]

I wish people like you would actually talk to people at Anthropic, maybe interview with the company, actually engage with the real humans there before making blithe comments like this.

Seriously, you're on HN, you can't possibly be that many degrees removed from someone at the company.

In any case it's absolutely not "just marketing", it suffuses their whole culture, and it is genuine.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#192

Post by hedora »

dmix wrote: post #15
6Az4Mj4D wrote: post #3

Leaving autonomous weapons aside, how does Anthropic justifies that they signed up with surveillance company Palantir and now raising concerns for same surveillance with DoD? It doesn't match.

> signed up with surveillance company Palantir Just to nitpick, Palantir isn't doing surveillance like Flock. They do data integration the way IBM does under contract for the governments. Some data pipelines include law enforcement surveillance data which get integrated with other software/databases to help police analyze it. There's no evidence they are collecting it themselves despite recent headlines. It's a relat…

It's funny you'd pick IBM:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

Though, I guess IBM did get away with lots of stuff that... Actually, did any supply companies in the WWII German war machine actually get in trouble for war crimes, or did they just go after officers and the people actually working in the camps?

The company selling punchcards that were used for logistics was apparently fine. What about the people making the gas canisters, or supplying plumbing fixtures? The plumbers? Where's the line?

Wondering, since this is increasingly becoming a current events question instead of an academic concern.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#193

Post by [deleted] »

derwiki wrote: post #143
nradov wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always hilarious watching online fights between tech industry billionaires, sort of like the geek version of UFC. The weirdest part is how regular people pick sides and defend their billionaire against the other guy.

Why is that weird? If we do that for UFC and other sports

[deleted]

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#194

Post by supjeff »

hintymad wrote: post #72

Honest question: why do people automatically equate "fully autonomous weapons" to something like killer robot? My immediate reaction is that even the best-in-class rapid-fire gun has a hard time identifying and tracking drones. So, we'd need AI to do better tracking, which leads to a fully autonomous weapon. And I really don't get why that's a bad thing. Of course, a company should have freedom to choose not to do bu…

Oh, you think the current administration only wants robots that kill other robots! Sweet Summer Child!

Its not fully autonomous ice cream machines, its fully autonomous _weapons_. are you stupid or are you dumb? I don't think you're asking an honest question.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#195

Post by neya »

fmajid wrote: post #161
neya wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Dario on the other hand seems to have an integrity that's particularly rare in this era. Anthropic actually partnered up with Palantir. They are not the saints you think they are, either. We should stop worshipping people and companies and stop putting them on pedestals. Just because one party is at fault, doesn't mean the other is automatically innocent. These are all for-profit companies at play here. https://inve…

If you look at his comments about Palantir and their proposed safeguards, it's clear it's a case of "if you are dining with the Devil, you'd better bring a very long spoon"

These comments were after the deal had soured. Not before. If it was a case of such morality, the partnership with Palantir would have never happened in the first place.

The contract was explicit - it was for defence purposes with a company known for spying activities. So, obviously spying is involved and they weren't just going to generate cat videos with it.

Again, nobody is innocent here.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#196

Post by galangalalgol »

fmajid wrote: post #157
mrandish wrote: post #57

When @sama announced within hours that OAI was replacing Anthropic with the "same conditions ", it was clear that either the DoW or OAI (or both) were fudging. DoW balked at Anthropic's conditions so OAI's agreement must have made the "conditions" basically unenforceable. And sure enough, my reading of it left the impression the OAI conditions were basically "DoW won't do anything which violates the rules DoW sets fo…

Or, as is likely, OpenAI models have no guardrails, Anthropic's did and the DoD was bumping into them.

Does anyone else notice claude is just plain better at reasoning? It may not just be post training guardrails. It would not surprise me of it was something anthropic couldn't simply disable. Either from reinforcement or even training corpus curation. Of all the models, claude is the only one that makes me wonder if they have figured out something beyond stochastic language generation and aren't telling anyone

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#197

Post by techpression »

adriand wrote: post #129
oxdgd38 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know how this story will end for Dario. See Oppenheimer, Turing, Lavoisier, Galileo, Socretes etc. Power does not reside in the hands of people with knowledge or even wealth. And most technical people have not taken a political philosophy course or even a philosphy course. The Ring of Gyges story is 4000 years old.

I think Amodei is widely underestimated. The consensus viewpoint on the deal that OpenAI struck with the Pentagon is that Anthropic got played. I disagree. I'm certain that Amodei and his team gamed this out. In doing so, I think there's at least two conclusions they would have drawn: 1. Some other AI company would cut a deal with the Pentagon. There's no world in which all the labs boycott the Pentagon. So who? Choo…

They still need a lot of money and what their VC’s think is going to be more important than what Amedei does. Nothing more profitable than war and government.

App Store rankings are meaningless, I have Claude, ChatGPT and Gemini all in top five, with a electronic mail app being 1 and a postal tracking service app (for a very small provider) being 3.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#198

Post by neya »

dota_fanatic wrote: post #170
neya wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Dario on the other hand seems to have an integrity that's particularly rare in this era. Anthropic actually partnered up with Palantir. They are not the saints you think they are, either. We should stop worshipping people and companies and stop putting them on pedestals. Just because one party is at fault, doesn't mean the other is automatically innocent. These are all for-profit companies at play here. https://inve…

I've heard Palantir is essentially the only federal cloud vendor with this administration for secure services. By "partnered up with Palantir", do you mean they provided their models to the government? Or something more?

From the title of the link enclosed:

"Anthropic and Palantir Partner to Bring Claude AI Models to AWS for U.S. Government Intelligence and Defense Operations"

Keywords: "Government Intelligence"

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#199

Post by hedora »

spaghetdefects wrote: post #86
jfengel wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're doing it against the terms of service (and publicly so), I can't pin that one on Anthropic. They've done lots wrong and maybe they shouldn't have gotten in bed with the military to begin with, but this illegal war is not theirs. It rests squarely with the President who declared it. (And with the military officers who are going along with it despite the violation of international law.)

I don't think any AI company should get in bed with the military. That being said, if the terms of service have been violated, the account should be canceled.

They basically are cancelling the contract, but there are some nuances on Anthropic's side. The contract probably has stipulations that prevent them from doing it overnight, so it might be illegal (but ethical) for them to just turn off the API keys.

Also, doing that might have bad second order effects with bad ethical implications.

For example, when Musk decided to pull the plug on a bunch of starlink terminals, he (intentionally and knowingly) blocked a US-funded attack that would have sunk a big chunk of the Russian navy, which certainly prolonged the Ukraine war. That was clearly an act of treason (illegal).

Anyway, just turning off Claude could kill a bunch of civilians in the region or something. It depends on how deeply it's integrated into military logistics at this point.

Anyway, your point certainly holds for OpenAI:

They walked into a "use ChatGPT for war crimes, and illegal domestic surveillance / 'law enforcement'" deal with open eyes, and pretty obviously lied about it while the deal was being signed. I don't see any ethical nuance that would even partially excuse their actions.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#200

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mrandish wrote: post #57

When @sama announced within hours that OAI was replacing Anthropic with the "same conditions ", it was clear that either the DoW or OAI (or both) were fudging. DoW balked at Anthropic's conditions so OAI's agreement must have made the "conditions" basically unenforceable. And sure enough, my reading of it left the impression the OAI conditions were basically "DoW won't do anything which violates the rules DoW sets fo…

For consumer ChatGPT accounts, go to their privacy portal [1] and, first, delete your GPTs, and then, second, delete your account.

[1] https://privacy.openai.com/policies?modal=take-control

Post reply on HN