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Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

openwireless.org

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Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#31

Post by runjake »

I did this for a while and then I had a neighbor who'd use it for their torrent downloads (they probably didn't want to hose their own precious bandwidth).

I haven't found a QoS/shaping scheme that works adequately with DD-WRT, so I just shut the open SSID down.

Additionally, I believe that in the next 5-7 years, the US broadband ISP model will move to a metered bandwidth model, similar to what US mobile carriers are doing now. Just wait.

They'll claim its due to torrenters or some such nonsense, but the real reason will be to extract more profit from their customers. So, I think the whole "open and free" Internet thing will be a moot point in the next decade.

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#32

Post by Swannie »

retube wrote: post #14

If I understand corectly this is basically the same concept as BT Openzone http://www.btwifi.com/ . 3.5m "hotspots" now apparently, most of them domestically hosted via their "homehub" router.

More like FON http://www.fon.com/en

But yes, OpenZone is very similar. OpenZone lets BT know the end subscriber, based on the user name of the device on the HotSpot.

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#33

Post by nathan_long »

pfortuny wrote: post #3

The REAL problem is the 'we don't think so' at the 'Will opening my network make me liable for others' illegal activities?'. That is the key of the problem and until it is fixed there is no way I am opening my wifi to strangers.

If everyone opened their wifi to strangers, it might BE the solution; everyone would realize that IP != person. But I agree with you.

It's an unfortunate chicken-and-egg problem. I think this web site is trying to solve it by getting enough people to jump at the same time.

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#34

Post by dennish00a »

I've lived in this world: it was San Francisco about 15 years ago. People there used to leave their networks open (60%?) and now they don't (99%). It is an amazing change and I don't understand it. What has changed? I think it is the population using WiFi, which used to be more technology people and is now just...everybody.

My network is still open, though, and will remain so. Less than once a year I have to throttle a heavy user.

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#35

Post by DVGDGSDFGDFG »

pfortuny wrote: post #3

The REAL problem is the 'we don't think so' at the 'Will opening my network make me liable for others' illegal activities?'. That is the key of the problem and until it is fixed there is no way I am opening my wifi to strangers.

Have you considered having all the traffic routing through a proxy?

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#36

Post by pfortuny »

pfortuny wrote: post #23
waqf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly, breaking a contract is not "illegal". The ISP's recourse is probably limited to terminating the contract. Secondly, just because it's written in the contract doesn't mean it's legally enforceable. Thirdly, just because it's legally enforceable doesn't mean it's enforceable in practice. Fourthly, just because it's enforceable in practice doesn't mean it's enforced.

You're right jowever I sign that conract in good faith and conscious of the consequences. I do not want to break it just for some ethereal good-will.

Sorry for the big-thumbed post... On the other hand, contracts define a 'law' (between the parts: something which forces someone to act/not act in a specified way), they are the basis of civil relations (not civic, civil).

The fact that the other part can do something about it does not mean that I have the right to break it at will.

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#38

Post by Dylan16807 »

Retric wrote: post #29
Dylan16807 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using a mental health problem to counter an argument that depends on rational thinking is rather pointless. Elemenohpee was dismissive because there is no reasonable argument for valuing minor to moderate legal liability as more important than life itself. Pointing out that elemenohpee was dismissive is not going to help you win the argument. It just adds more evidence to the accusation of "intellectually dishonest"…

I agree he was over the top, however... Rational does not mean the same thing as sanity. Rationality means behaving in a manor consistent with your beliefs, desires, and the information you have. If you would much rather be killed while skydiving than driving your car taking you may do things that are not what most people would consider 'sane', but are still perfectly rational based on your goals and beliefs.

I'm not worried about some societal standards definition of 'sanity'. If you want to skydive into a volcano to celebrate your 80th birthday then go ahead. But depression as I understand it distorts your beliefs about yourself to the point that they can't be trusted at all. The problem is not the belief/desire/information per se, but how it got there.

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#39

Post by digitalWestie »

prof_hobart wrote: post #18
retube wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first statement is afaik not correct. 1) It would create a serious issue for the BT Openzone network which turns all BT "homehubs" (a glorified wireless router) into open access points for any other BT subscriber and 2) there have been a number of court cases around downloading of pirated content which have hinged on whether or not the subscriber was responsible.

Regardless of what the theory of the law may seem to indicate, then assuming that The Cloud's MD isn't lying, it looks like the courts may sometimes disagree with you. "A pub owner has been fined £8,000 because someone unlawfully downloaded copyrighted material over their open Wi-Fi hotspot, according to the managing director of hotspot provider The Cloud."( http://www.zdnet.com/-3039909136/ ). Personally, while ther…

didn't a judge recently rule that an ip does not represent a person?

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#40

Post by waqf »

pfortuny wrote: post #36
pfortuny wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right jowever I sign that conract in good faith and conscious of the consequences. I do not want to break it just for some ethereal good-will.

Sorry for the big-thumbed post... On the other hand, contracts define a 'law' (between the parts: something which forces someone to act/not act in a specified way), they are the basis of civil relations (not civic, civil). The fact that the other part can do something about it does not mean that I have the right to break it at will.

I believe your contract is unjust. While I can't speak for you personally, I believe many people sign such contracts without regard to their justness, because they don't have market power to renegotiate the contract. And I believe that under such circumstances it's not unethical to "renegotiate" the contract by infringing it and seeing what happens.
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