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Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

openwireless.org

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Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#21

Post by waqf »

pfortuny wrote: post #12

Clarifying: illegal in Spain. Copied from the 'general conditions' of an ADSL contract in Spain (Telefónica): "Queda expresamente prohibida la [...] compartición de recursos fuera del domicilio" (The sharing of resources out of the domicile is expressively forbidden). The link is here: http://www.movistar.es/rpmm/estaticos/residencial/fijo/banda... Won't do this in Spain.

Firstly, breaking a contract is not "illegal". The ISP's recourse is probably limited to terminating the contract.

Secondly, just because it's written in the contract doesn't mean it's legally enforceable.

Thirdly, just because it's legally enforceable doesn't mean it's enforceable in practice.

Fourthly, just because it's enforceable in practice doesn't mean it's enforced.

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#22

Post by elemenohpee »

pfortuny wrote: post #19
belorn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never meant you should use tor/vpn on your own traffic, just the open wifi traffic. Funnel all trafic you deem risky (ie, from the unknown public) to tor, and let your own traffic use the non-tor route. Technically, you can do this several ways. You can base it on the source MAC, ipsec authentication, or just have two separate networks (one close, one open). As for the risk. Yes, any activity is a risk. Walking dow…

risk=dangerValue x probabilty. I am entitled to value legal liability as higher than my own life, am I not?

You're entitled to say that you do in order to win an argument on the internet, but everyone knows you're being intellectually dishonest about it.

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#23

Post by pfortuny »

waqf wrote: post #21
pfortuny wrote: post #12

Clarifying: illegal in Spain. Copied from the 'general conditions' of an ADSL contract in Spain (Telefónica): "Queda expresamente prohibida la [...] compartición de recursos fuera del domicilio" (The sharing of resources out of the domicile is expressively forbidden). The link is here: http://www.movistar.es/rpmm/estaticos/residencial/fijo/banda... Won't do this in Spain.

Firstly, breaking a contract is not "illegal". The ISP's recourse is probably limited to terminating the contract. Secondly, just because it's written in the contract doesn't mean it's legally enforceable. Thirdly, just because it's legally enforceable doesn't mean it's enforceable in practice. Fourthly, just because it's enforceable in practice doesn't mean it's enforced.

You're right jowever I sign that conract in good faith and conscious of the consequences. I do not want to break it just for some ethereal good-will.

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#24

Post by [deleted] »

waqf wrote: post #21
pfortuny wrote: post #12

Clarifying: illegal in Spain. Copied from the 'general conditions' of an ADSL contract in Spain (Telefónica): "Queda expresamente prohibida la [...] compartición de recursos fuera del domicilio" (The sharing of resources out of the domicile is expressively forbidden). The link is here: http://www.movistar.es/rpmm/estaticos/residencial/fijo/banda... Won't do this in Spain.

Firstly, breaking a contract is not "illegal". The ISP's recourse is probably limited to terminating the contract. Secondly, just because it's written in the contract doesn't mean it's legally enforceable. Thirdly, just because it's legally enforceable doesn't mean it's enforceable in practice. Fourthly, just because it's enforceable in practice doesn't mean it's enforced.

[deleted]

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#25

Post by pfortuny »

elemenohpee wrote: post #22
pfortuny wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

risk=dangerValue x probabilty. I am entitled to value legal liability as higher than my own life, am I not?

You're entitled to say that you do in order to win an argument on the internet, but everyone knows you're being intellectually dishonest about it.

Thanks for the parenting. I guess you have never been depressed: you would value a few of things above your life if you had. But anyway, thanks for the mastering.

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#26

Post by Dylan16807 »

pfortuny wrote: post #25
elemenohpee wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're entitled to say that you do in order to win an argument on the internet, but everyone knows you're being intellectually dishonest about it.

Thanks for the parenting. I guess you have never been depressed: you would value a few of things above your life if you had. But anyway, thanks for the mastering.

Using a mental health problem to counter an argument that depends on rational thinking is rather pointless.

Elemenohpee was dismissive because there is no reasonable argument for valuing minor to moderate legal liability as more important than life itself. Pointing out that elemenohpee was dismissive is not going to help you win the argument. It just adds more evidence to the accusation of "intellectually dishonest" if you have nothing else to say in rebuttal, especially when you exaggerate it.

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#27

Post by belorn »

pfortuny wrote: post #19
belorn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never meant you should use tor/vpn on your own traffic, just the open wifi traffic. Funnel all trafic you deem risky (ie, from the unknown public) to tor, and let your own traffic use the non-tor route. Technically, you can do this several ways. You can base it on the source MAC, ipsec authentication, or just have two separate networks (one close, one open). As for the risk. Yes, any activity is a risk. Walking dow…

risk=dangerValue x probabilty. I am entitled to value legal liability as higher than my own life, am I not?

Everyone is entitled to irrational behavior and act disproportional to the actual danger posed. My point, is simply to point out that it is irrational, but for those who are inclined to do so, there are methods to eliminate the risk by technical measures.

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#28

Post by elemenohpee »

pfortuny wrote: post #25
elemenohpee wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're entitled to say that you do in order to win an argument on the internet, but everyone knows you're being intellectually dishonest about it.

Thanks for the parenting. I guess you have never been depressed: you would value a few of things above your life if you had. But anyway, thanks for the mastering.

If you truly valued freedom from legal liability above your own life, wouldn't you just kill yourself rather than be exposed to the risk of say, driving a car around other people?

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#29

Post by Retric »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #26
pfortuny wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the parenting. I guess you have never been depressed: you would value a few of things above your life if you had. But anyway, thanks for the mastering.

Using a mental health problem to counter an argument that depends on rational thinking is rather pointless. Elemenohpee was dismissive because there is no reasonable argument for valuing minor to moderate legal liability as more important than life itself. Pointing out that elemenohpee was dismissive is not going to help you win the argument. It just adds more evidence to the accusation of "intellectually dishonest"…

I agree he was over the top, however...

Rational does not mean the same thing as sanity. Rationality means behaving in a manor consistent with your beliefs, desires, and the information you have. If you would much rather be killed while skydiving than driving your car taking you may do things that are not what most people would consider 'sane', but are still perfectly rational based on your goals and beliefs.

Re: Imagine a world where dozens of open networks are available at your fingertips

#30

Post by belorn »

trout wrote: post #15

I don't like how the pitch and the implementation instructions diverge. The pitch uses technology that read 'pop our Considerable Use policy when they connect', 'firewall users so they can't see each other', 'use a separate network so yours doesn't get slower'. There's an assumption that if you name your SSID openwireless.org that it somehow ties them to the Considerable Use guidelines. Which means that people search…

Agree. The technical methods to implement QoS, dual wifi networks (or tor funneling) is rather hard to do. I would like to see a UPnP program that you install on a server, and then it would autoconfigure the wifi-network if possible. Something like a "one-click and your done" solution.
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