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Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

europeanbusinessmagazine.com

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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#841

Post by Nasrudith »

porknbeans00 wrote: post #773
severino wrote: post #135

Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…

So... there once was a company called First data. Founded by some JPMC execs who got chased out of the bank after being caught performing espionage for Palantir. They sold their transaction platform as a service to Apple Pay. And funneled all your transaction data to palantir. Financial networks are side channels for intelligence gathering. And that makes the folks doing them outside of your nation an adversary. With…

Really the folks doing them inside your nation are also adversaries. The worst ones in fact because they usually have the power or know somebody who has the power to jail you.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#842

Post by glenneroo »

mdavid626 wrote: post #197
glenneroo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but now we have instant EU-wide SEPA transfers for free, so it's not all stupidity! Also it took years to implement - banks are slow at implementing new tech. WERO is still very new, if it takes off, eventually banks will hopefully support it.

When I sold my car, the buyer wanted to use instant payments. Sounds good! It didn’t work for the amount we needed (over 15k).

Weird, I googled around and I see every bank has their own limits, and all banks I could find claim a 30-100k or no limit at all.

Whatever LLM duckduckgo is using says 10k and ability increase as more transactions are made (to increase trust) - but it's probably using outdated data.

When did you try this? I'm guessing more than a year ago.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#843

Post by yalogin »

Whether this particular attempt is really the disconnect or not , it doesn’t matter. The train has left the station this time and they are going to replace the visa/mastercard duopoly. India and China proved it’s absolutely doable, the administration just pushed Europe down this path.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#844

Post by abc123abc123 »

yalogin wrote: post #843

Whether this particular attempt is really the disconnect or not , it doesn’t matter. The train has left the station this time and they are going to replace the visa/mastercard duopoly. India and China proved it’s absolutely doable, the administration just pushed Europe down this path.

Switzerland and denmark have proven it is possible. An interesting challenge will be to see if these national systems can be integrated somehow. If so, problem solved.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#845

Post by abc123abc123 »

philipwhiuk wrote: post #816
joe_mamba wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No one should be required to carry an attacker-controlled tracking device What about being required to carry a your-own-government-controlled tracking device? Because the US or Chine government can't harm me in Europe via the data they collect from me, But the EU authorities can if they want to, so naturally I fear them more if they were the ones hoovering my data. What are the odds they're using this on-shore tech…

> Because the US or Chine government can't harm me in Europe via the data they collect from me That's an amusingly naïve perspective. The US government absolutely can harm you, via a multitude of ways.

Not to speak of russia who have been sending assassins to kill people in the EU for a long time, and the EU has not been very good at stopping those.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#846

Post by bryanrasmussen »

throwaway290 wrote: post #751
jasonfarnon wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had no idea visa/mc didn't bear the cost of fraud. I remember Paypal almost getting killed by fraud in the early days, and I always thought of Paypal as basically replicating visa/mc for online purchases. I didn't realize they were doing so much more than visa/mc by assuming fraud risk.

MC/Visa do drop merchants who do bad stuff (remember CSAM on PH) so I guess they bear some of it.

their monopolies were formed in a different time, when it might have been thought prudent to drop bad merchants even if they themselves did not bear the risk in order to not get governmental regulation imposed that would be more detrimental than just dropping the merchants.

Not saying that's the case, just given circumstances not sure if risk is needed to explain the result in this case.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#847

Post by compounding_it »

hdra wrote: post #524
compounding_it wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If previously 3 merchants had visa / Mastercard out of 10 who only accepted cash or cheques, then with UPI all 10 now accept UPI but 7 or 8 accept a universal POS which allows more type of payments. If previously 10% payments were via cards that costed them 2%, then now if sales are 2-3x because of UPI and online payments, letting go of that 2% for even 20% share of cards is fine because they captured a larger market…

>simply because it's easier by tapping i was under the impression UPI is just the underlying protocol, but an interface can be built on top be it tapping/QR/others? is that not the case?

I don’t see why there can’t be tap to pay via UPI. There is no holding back when it comes to technology. But it’s not implemented yet. We still have high corruption. Maybe they don’t want to make digital payments too easy that people forget cash. Just enough to win elections.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#848

Post by compounding_it »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #127
compounding_it wrote: post #13

When India moved to UPI in the last few years something very interesting happened. The same devices that accept UPI (usually some android based POS) also accepted a plethora of cards. Previously merchants would be hesitant to take anything other than cash or charge 2% for visa/mastercard. But with wide adoption of digital payments they now just accept any payment with the goal that they don't want bad reviews and/or…

I was there when this started to roll this out - I remember a lot of nice pine labs payment terminals - it was really nice that I could begin to depend on my American Express card there more than trying to finagle cash (2000inr bills get you a lot of frustrated service workers). I say AmEx because they tended to work much better than my visa there.

That’s how all my non resident friends pay. They have chase bofa discover Amex etc cards that they use to pay most places. Ease of payments is the catch and credit cards bring that process down a lot. There is something psychological going on with cards that UPI and ApplePay simply don’t have. Swiping probably was fastest.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#849

Post by arantius »

juliangmp wrote: post #716
nottorp wrote: post #702

Item one, that has been mentioned a lot of times in this discussion, is that a payment system that is independent of Visa/MC but is dependent on US based smartphones is about as useless. Item two is convenience. All these systems are "faster wire transfers". I don't really see the point of them when you can already do instant IBAN or even phone number based transfers. What they do not have is a line of credit backing…

I never understood the credit card thing Why would I want to spend money on loan by default? Why do the Americans do that all the time? What's the benefit?

I can't answer for Americans for a whole, but I live in the USA and I pay with credit card by default. My personal reasons:

* Cards are convenient. No need to go get cash, no change at each transaction to manage carrying around. * Cards give a discount in the form of "cash back". (As mentioned elsewhere, this really just inflates the cost of everything for everyone, but I might as well claw it back.) * I don't actually go "into debt". I pay off my card (automatically!) every month, and incur no interest charges. I use it like a slightly deferred debit card with benefits.

The last bullet being significant to your point: I don't "spend money on [a] loan".

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#850

Post by gvurrdon »

severino wrote: post #135

Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…

Definitely. I have spent the last few days trying to get a replacement "Digipass" device for a bank account I run for a small sports club. The bank was very reluctant to issue a new one as they want to move everyone onto their app to generate codes for logging in to their website. Trying to argue that even if their app worked now on a de-Googled Android device there was no guarantee that they wouldn't require Google's safetynet etc. at some point in the future was a failure. They did not understand this and decreed that the app not working, or possibly not working, on one's phone was "not a valid reason" to be excused from using the app. Luckily because the account is a business account I was able to claim that using banking apps on phones was against company policy (I set the policy myself), which is an excuse they were willing to accept. For now.
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