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Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

europeanbusinessmagazine.com

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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#751

Post by throwaway290 »

jasonfarnon wrote: post #551
avianlyric wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of what you’ve mentioned has anything to do with Visa and Mastercard. Visa and Mastercard are just payment networks, their whole business is literally just transporting transaction information from payment terminals to banks and payment processors, plus keeping track of all the numbers (which is pretty important). Payment networks don’t provide credit or any kind of liquidity whatsoever, that entirely provided b…

I had no idea visa/mc didn't bear the cost of fraud. I remember Paypal almost getting killed by fraud in the early days, and I always thought of Paypal as basically replicating visa/mc for online purchases. I didn't realize they were doing so much more than visa/mc by assuming fraud risk.

MC/Visa do drop merchants who do bad stuff (remember CSAM on PH) so I guess they bear some of it.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#752

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

raven12345 wrote: post #745
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an advocate for the US withdrawing from NATO so we don't have to fight so many wars. I'm an isolationist, and I advocate a non-imperialist, Swiss-style foreign policy for the US. If you'll join me in that advocacy, then good.

Aside from Ukraine & Afghanistan war(and this one is for US self), what wars have been fought because the US intervened due to threats against NATO members?

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_... -- initiated by France and Britain, proving that NATO is not a "defensive military alliance"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia -- another offensive "humanitarian" action

By withdrawing from NATO and pulling our military bases out of Europe, it becomes more difficult for the US to "intervene" in the Middle East at the pleasure of Middle Eastern interests.

Furthermore, if Russia invades more countries in Europe, I don't want the US to "intervene" with yet another "humanitarian" operation.

We can slash the size of our military and spend that money at home on healthcare, debt reduction, etc.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#753

Post by shswkna »

eastbayjake wrote: post #97
ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #8

I always find it entertaining to hear people try to argue that what these companies do is soooooo difficult and that's why they're valuable. It's just multiple computers keeping a balance. It's not complicated. No, these companies keep themselves in power not because they've solved such a difficult problem that nobody else can, but because they have a moat which they protect. Time to do away with these foreign entiti…

I'm a little shocked that of all the comments so far, no one has mentioned the financial risk borne by this whole value chain. OP is operating as if it's just a debit system moving money from one account to another but: - For many consumers there isn't sufficient money in the account to settle all the one-time and ongoing transactions they are liable for -- credit cards are giving you a revolving loan, there's risk i…

In this response, I detect the typical European tendency of elevating risk over opportunity.

This is not meant as a personal attack, or meant to be defamatory. I am detecting a familiar pattern, that is entrenched culturally.

Further, I identify this cultural trait as one of the obstacles or reason for many European problems.

It’s an opinion I have.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#754

Post by pjc50 »

joe_mamba wrote: post #730
pyrale wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without having to through the effort to twist the arm of US entities every time they want to do that? Right now, it's more like US corpos are try to twist the arm of EU governments [1][2], pushing heavy propaganda to manipulate our elections [3], allying with the US government to do so. And the US government has been threatening EU govts with invasion [4], leveraging US corpos to harm lawful individuals doing their…

[flagged]

Moreau is apparently a Russian citizen living in Russia since 2013. I have some concerns about process, but not for these guys. People working for enemy intelligence services tend to get treated harshly.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#755

Post by wvh »

elektronika wrote: post #506
nosianu wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GrapheneOS in Spain? https://www.androidauthority.com/why-i-use-grapheneos-on-pix... > Police in Spain have reportedly started profiling people based on their phones; specifically, and surprisingly, those carrying Google Pixel devices. Law enforcement officials in Catalonia say they associate Pixels with crime because drug traffickers are increasingly turning to these phones. But it’s not Google’s secure Titan M2 chi…

Really makes you think when petty criminals use privacy tech while billionaire pedophiles run their dealings through gmail.

I guess they consider themselves untouchable.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#756

Post by chrisjj »

hirako2000 wrote: post #628
chrisjj wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do you do this without a phone?

I concede that's a drawback pushing us more dependent to owning and carrying a smart phone at all times. But I would say payments just piggy backs on a societal change that already makes it very challenging to opt for a brick phone or nothing. Also to say, cash remains. That's more radical and effective as a fall back than a card which one can lose. When abroad I remember the anxiety of losing my wallet when abroad.…

There is no such societal change except this pressure itself. A plastic card is affordable, accessible, private, and easy to use for just about everyone. Smartphone not.

> Also to say, cash remains. That's more radical

?!

> and effective as a fall back than a card which one can lose.

Cash loss is a thing, actually. Plus cash is more attractive for theft.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#757

Post by deeringc »

moffkalast wrote: post #334
pjmlp wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Portugal we have the Multibanco network, which already provided Internet like services for buying stuff on the terminals and eventually graduated to have online payments as well, however only in Portugal. Likewise, in Germany we can have SEPA for most stuff. And in Greece there is Viva. Problem is getting something that actually works across all European countries.

SEPA would be a decent solution with instant QR code generation and app payments, but the transfer fees are ludicrous for daily use (~1-2€ per wire). Or maybe it's just my bank being greedy fucks as usual.

Instant SEPA is free - see Instant Payments Regulation (IPR) — Regulation (EU) 2024/886.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#758

Post by HunOL »

Freak_NL wrote: post #734
jonathanlydall wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect people not living in the Netherlands to just know this? In South Africa where I live, anywhere that accepts cards accepts Visa and Mastercard. Outside of the "informal business" sector (e.g. tiny "businesses" like a roadside stall), card acceptance is so ubiquitous I don't carry cash anymore and it's very rarely an issue.

> Why would you expect people not living in the Netherlands to just know this? Because this is a thing in most of Europe. Most people don't own a creditcard, and those that do use it mostly for online purchases outside of the EU. I don't travel to another continent without looking up how to pay for things when I get there.

> Because this is a thing in most of Europe.

I think you wastly exegarate your observations.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#759

Post by joe_mamba »

pjc50 wrote: post #754
joe_mamba wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Moreau is apparently a Russian citizen living in Russia since 2013. I have some concerns about process, but not for these guys. People working for enemy intelligence services tend to get treated harshly.

>Moreau is apparently a Russian citizen living in Russia since 2013.

Is he not still a French born citizen deserving of a fair trial? Or should getting a dual citizenship of a foreign passport, of a nation that later becomes an adversary, become an automatic death sentence? US should then put all it citizens with Cuban and Iranian passports in jail with that logic.

And then what about Jacques BAUD who's Swiss living in Belgium? He doesn't deserve a fair trial either? On what grounds? With what evidence?

How can you justify dishing out death sentences without trial? Remember that blindly supporting the authoritarian hand waving of due process with no trial or evidence, just to easily get rid of undesirable people, can always be used against you too, if what you say becomes undesirable when politics shifts.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#760

Post by pjc50 »

digiown wrote: post #257
severino wrote: post #135

Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…

This is really a human right issue. No one should be required to carry an attacker-controlled tracking device, especially not for interacting with the government. It's funny that the EU uses all this mobile attestation BS more than the US does. So much for sovereignty and consumer protection. No monopoly Google can build is as good as the government forcing you to accept their terms.

There's a certain amount of conspiracy theory going on in this thread, but it it right to ask: who will be banned from this payment system, and under what rules? Can we make it a legal requirement to at least provide a justification which can be challenged?

The usual first victims are sex workers, not political minorities.

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