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Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

europeanbusinessmagazine.com

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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#191

Post by vidarh »

V__ wrote: post #137
eastbayjake wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little shocked that of all the comments so far, no one has mentioned the financial risk borne by this whole value chain. OP is operating as if it's just a debit system moving money from one account to another but: - For many consumers there isn't sufficient money in the account to settle all the one-time and ongoing transactions they are liable for -- credit cards are giving you a revolving loan, there's risk i…

> For many consumers there isn't sufficient money in the account to settle all the one-time and ongoing transactions they are liable for This is a uniquely American viewpoint. In most of Europe you don't buy anything on credit ever.

There are numerous credit providers in Europe that would beg to differ.

By December 2025, consumer credit in the Euro area alone stood at an estimated €812 billion.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#192

Post by jacekm »

tamimio wrote: post #79

> Wero lets users send money using just a phone number Of course, what could go wrong!! Unbelievable, a chance to make a whole new standard, new system, new everything, but yet we still have the need to tie it to ancient protocols, only to find later it’s broken by design and we start adding all sort of duct tape solutions to make it “secure”.. This is either a completely and entirely stupid move by some boomers livi…

TBH many European payment apps use the phone number as an ID and people seem to love it. I share the privacy concerns but if I don't want someone to know my phone number I just give them my IBAN.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#193

Post by direwolf20 »

graemep wrote: post #171
close04 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most obvious difference being that unlike China or India, Europe (or the EU) is not a single country. This doesn't make things impossible but certainly complicates them.

The sensible thing would be to do it by currency area - e.g. the Eurozone. Technology and some systems could be shared.

Then we could have an international standard to let the national networks work together, like for the phone network.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#194

Post by graemep »

jimnotgym wrote: post #142
ericmay wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, these companies keep themselves in power not because they've solved such a difficult problem that nobody else can, but because they have a moat which they protect. I don't know that the problem is sophisticated, but it's certainly complex [1]. It's a bit of both in terms of complexity and defending a moat, which all businesses do, including, and especially European ones. And companies like Visa, Mastercard, Ame…

> Buying a bottle of Calvados in some remote area? Yea just tap to pay with your Mastercard. Hard disagree. Until Covid, many small shops didn't take cards in Europe. Taxis, restaurants, market stalls, even trains were often cash only not that long ago. I in the UK ran accounts in companies that had people travel extensively in Europe. We used to issue travellers with EUR200 for the things that cards couldn't buy. Mo…

Its not just American tourists. Its everyone from everywhere.

If you do not accept Visa and Mastercard you are not going to accept payments from all sorts of travellers (tourists, business people, people from your own country living abroad) either.

> I guarantee there are a large number of people in rural Europe that would be very happy never to meet another American tourist, even if it costs them.

Xenophobic or anti-tourism?

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#195

Post by direwolf20 »

hellojimbo wrote: post #138
havaloc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's probably a little bit harder than you think with all the rules and regulations out there. I would highly encourage anybody who's remotely interested, listen to the Acquired podcast episode regarding Visa. It's actually quite fascinating how it was started. You may balk at the length, but the whole thing had me interested. https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/visa

My takeaway from the episode was that its actually really easy to setup up visa, you just need to get the banks, vendors, and card issuers onboard, which should be easy if you're the government

You still need to make it, but actually making it is a small fraction of the problem, less than half

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#196

Post by severino »

pjmlp wrote: post #164
severino wrote: post #135

Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…

On Portugal we have the Multibanco network, which already provided Internet like services for buying stuff on the terminals and eventually graduated to have online payments as well, however only in Portugal. Likewise, in Germany we can have SEPA for most stuff. And in Greece there is Viva. Problem is getting something that actually works across all European countries.

I've been in Portugal sometimes, and to me MB was synonymous with "we accept credit cards", and in fact it is in the sense that you can pay using Visa or Mastercard in those shops. But, is it a standalone system that doesn't require anything outside Portugal in order to work? With their own non-Visa credit cards? And can you use them when abroad in the EU, for example?

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#197

Post by mdavid626 »

glenneroo wrote: post #108
mdavid626 wrote: post #95

I use ING DIBA bank. I enabled WERO in the app, as that’s the only way for me to use it. I can send money ONLY to my contacts. It doesn’t allow to type in phone number, one needs to create a contact. I feel like Europe is just doomed. The stupidity is endless here.

Yeah but now we have instant EU-wide SEPA transfers for free, so it's not all stupidity! Also it took years to implement - banks are slow at implementing new tech. WERO is still very new, if it takes off, eventually banks will hopefully support it.

When I sold my car, the buyer wanted to use instant payments. Sounds good!

It didn’t work for the amount we needed (over 15k).

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#198

Post by KellyCriterion »

ncruces wrote: post #178
severino wrote: post #135

Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…

> Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Even if it does, Google won't be taking a cut from it. Also, it's then much easier to provide a mobile web version, or something else. My country's internal system also sells a bracelet for contactless payments, and there are obviously payment cards. Once there's a mandatory standard, it's much more likely competition will show u…

What would Google prevent from taking a similar cut as Apple is taking?

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#199

Post by graemep »

margana wrote: post #187
pjmlp wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Portugal we have the Multibanco network, which already provided Internet like services for buying stuff on the terminals and eventually graduated to have online payments as well, however only in Portugal. Likewise, in Germany we can have SEPA for most stuff. And in Greece there is Viva. Problem is getting something that actually works across all European countries.

The problem isn't just getting something that works across all European countries. It's getting something that works globally. While we may make most of our payments within EU, basically everyone still occasionally pays for something outside of EU, either online or when they travel. This means if the new thing only works in EU, every European will still need and have a MasterCard/Visa even if they use it less often t…

Also European merchants who need to accept payments from non-Europeans need to accept Visa and Mastercard.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#200

Post by unethical_ban »

eastbayjake wrote: post #109
functionmouse wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I shouldn't have to pay for your usury economy if I'm using cash. If that were really the issue, these companies would have no problems with businesses charging different prices or offering discounts for cash.

The networks allow cash discounts if it's posted clearly and the customer has an option to use a different payment method -- you see this on every gas station sign alongside every highway in America. (What's _not_ permitted is adding a secret surcharge or item mark-up for credit card payments)

Not true. A chain of restaurants near me does not accept cash, and charges 3.5% markup from their list price to cover CC fees. Texas.
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