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Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

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Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#621

Post by mk89 »

rvnx wrote: post #306
MonkeyClub wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on which data center you're hosted. The one under US jurisdiction operated by Hetzner US LLC must comply, while the German ones are operating under the GDPR, which has extraterritorial clauses can can deny or challenge the request.

It's not that guaranteed. The reality is that if you have any interest, company or employees in the US you can be coerced to do anything the US government wants. Either legally through courts, or through business influence, or through harassment (e.g. hardcore checks from the IRS). Sorry, Stripe rejects you now because you are high-risk (you have to explain why you refuse to help in criminal cases, though there is a…

There are EU alternatives to Stripe.

I know what you meant, but I think that there are alternatives, even if they are maybe not as good as the ones made in US.

Also, if the goal is to go all in on data sovereignty, so be it - put the companies in the sanctions list. It will only grow.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#622

Post by hilios »

dundarious wrote: post #573
hilios wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What incarcerations in Germany are you referring to?

This is surely not what OP was referring to, but: arguably worse than incarcerations, I strongly condemn EU sanctions against EU citizens and residents, such as Hüseyin Dogru, Jacques Baud, and Nathalie Yamb, merely for speech that is not aligned with EU foreign policy. Note that I don't consider it at all relevant whether one agrees/disagrees with the content of their speech.

If this isn't what OP was referring to, why bring it up? I don't see how this is relevant, to the security of data from European companies, stored in European clouds.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#623

Post by bborud »

SoftTalker wrote: post #520
bborud wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is risky to believe that the development gap alone makes for higher economic efficiency when manufacturing things in China. There are very real structural differences in how various industries are organized. Not least in terms of geography. This is an aspect the west seems to have missed entirely as there are no attempts to learn from it or emulate it. Everyone knows about Shenzhen. Not everyone knows that this is…

The US did this with automobile and steel industries concentrated around the Great Lakes. It's not some kind of profound insight on the part of the Chinese. The downside is that it decimates entire regions if/when the demand for what they produce drops.

Yes, it has its risk, but that isn’t why the US or Europe don’t cluster industry to create higher efficiency. The risk can be mitigated. The political willingness and ability to do it deliberately just isn’t there.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#624

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

vasac wrote: post #614
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main issue is political fragmentation: would Paris and Berlin risk lives of French and German people (soldiers and civilians due to retaliation) to save Vilnius? This is a wrong question. If one day Russia feels brave enough to attack any NATO country, the right question to ask is, "Do we want to fight this war on someone else's soil or on ours?". This is the reason why Europe is so focused on helping Ukraine B…

> Do we want to fight this war on someone else's soil or on ours? Russia thought so too.

What do you mean? There was never any question of attacking Russia and fighting any war on their soil. Nobody in their right mind would attack a country with the 2nd largest army and nuclear weapons. The war in Ukraine definitely made this army still very weak, but, except Ukraine defending itself, I don't see anyone rushing to attack Russia anytime soon. It makes no sense now and made no sense before they invaded Ukraine. There is nothing to win by attacking Russia and a lot to lose.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#625

Post by alibarber »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #262
alibarber wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of the stuff that is under control of the US cloud companies has any need for being in an ‘AI’ datacentre? Does a store of healthcare records need AI? The state portal for renewing passports? The tax administration? I seemed to be able to use all of these things online before the latest boom in AI came along.

AI will be involved in all processing of data. Everything that is human work today will be done by AI tomorrow. So if Europe will rely on US AI infrastructure, nothing is won by moving the old CPU bound processes off of US cloud infrastructure.

Two out of three of these things are effectively fully automated already in my experience.

And I'm afraid I do not share your belief that the work done by a healthcare professional today will be done by AI tomorrow.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#626

Post by palata »

direwolf20 wrote: post #574
akudha wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is wrong with using Linux?

Linus Torvalds is very pro–corporate, pro–tivoization, he thinks GPL3 was a terrible mistake.

Is he pro-tivoization, or is he not against it?

I heard him talk about GPLv3 someday, and what he said was that it was a mistake to call it "GPLv3", as if it was the evolution of GPLv2, because for him it should have been a totally different licence.

Which I find fair: there are different kinds of copyleft (like MPL vs GPL), it makes sense to say that GPLv2 is a different concept than GPLv3. Whereas I don't know if anyone should use GPLv1 because GPLv2 sounds like it fixed GPLv1 without changing its spirit.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#627

Post by mgh95 »

Juliate wrote: post #271
mgh95 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Higher salaries aren't always better, especially when you're almost willfully ignoring more important things like purchasing power and quality of life. Senior SWE salaries I'm finding in a quick google search in Spain are 80k eur. According to levels.fyi [1] Google (and presumably the other clouds) are paying 170k eur. The comparison isn't even "is 4x the salary better in the US?" it's "is 2x the salary better in t…

But you still won't get with 170k in the Bay Area, what you get in Paris, Madrid, Nantes or Barcelona with 80k. In France, if you get 80k net, you do actually get ~160k, half of which is collected/distributed before by your employer to various mutualised funds (health, retirement, unemployment, state taxes, employee benefits, etc.). And the mechanism is somewhat similar in other EU countries.

> But you still won't get with 170k in the Bay Area, what you get in Paris, Madrid, Nantes or Barcelona with 80k.

Note the 170k eur is in Spain -- not the bay area. I compared salaries of Google in Spain to the average salary of a senior SWE in Spain. The point isn't that the big tech pay more in the bay area compared to Spain. The point is the big tech companies pay more in Spain compared to other Spanish companies.

And 170k eur in Spain is much more than 80k eur in Spain.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#628

Post by rm30 »

I've carefully read this interesting discussion: some political, mostly about full cloud services (AWS) vs partial EU providers, or lock-in vs indipendence.

I think the problem is elsewhere. The real advantage of big cloud players isn't their individual services. It's seamless integration and simplicity. We need a service integration standard for infrastructure that enables:

- Service discovery

- Networking

- Observability

- Configuration

This benefits everyone: EU companies, US startups, enterprises anywhere avoiding vendor lock-in. A standard letting services integrate regardless of who provides them.

Not just container orchestration (Kubernetes), but something working across bare metal, VPS, containers, and remote machines.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#629

Post by throaway54 »

ben_w wrote: post #437
Throaway3126 wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are the red lines. There is no going back. The USA is too dangerous to rely on, that's quite clear. People don't quite realize how big a deal "invading" Greenland would have been. That's literally an act of war! What's next, occupying France? Saying that it's at all a possibility is far beyond any red line that the EU thought it would have to deal with. Not only would the rest of the world ditch the USA, but the…

> People don't quite realize how big a deal "invading" Greenland would have been. That's literally an act of war! What's next, occupying France? Saying that it's at all a possibility is far beyond any red line that the EU thought it would have to deal with. Yes, absolutely, I agree. Thing is, in the end he backed off, so the result was all talk. He TACOed. For everyone's sake (including Americans'), I absolutely 100%…

No, the Democrats would do it precisely because of cynical human interest (they are like that). Donald Trump Republicans invading a Western nation plays right into their hands. They may as well just hand Gavin Newsom the next election. The overwhelming majority of US citizens do not approve of USA invading Greenland.
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