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GOG: Linux "the next major frontier" for gaming as it works on a native client

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Re: GOG: Linux "the next major frontier" for gaming as it works on a native client

#251

Post by tracker1 »

pjmlp wrote: post #173
emsign wrote: post #14

I'm very hopeful that Linux gaming will save the open PC desktop despite big tech is coming to destroy it. Or at least keep PCs alive for another decade. Gamers are still a huge factor as hardware customers. GOG creating a Linux launcher and Steam Box with SteamOS coming out soon should benefit PC users in general not just gamers since Microslop sees Windows like a social experiment where they can test AI on unsuspec…

There is nothing to save as long as it relies on game studios using Windows workstations, coding in Visual Studio and targeting DirectX. The goal has to be to make native Linux attractive, so that they actually bother to create native executables, using Vulkan and co. Until then it is no different from playing arcade games with MAME on Linux.

Frankly, WINE/Proton are likely more consistent targets for game dev/testing... I wish they'd at least do that much more often than not. At least smooth out any rough edges.

I would say it's a lot different, since it's an API implementation, not hardware emulation.

Re: GOG: Linux "the next major frontier" for gaming as it works on a native client

#253

Post by tracker1 »

pjmlp wrote: post #190
ecshafer wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Targeting DirectX and Win32 has become targeting Linux with how good Wine/Proton have gotten. I am able to play brand new games with no Linux support absolutely perfectly through proton. These games run better than games that had linux support actually ran on linux.

Thus making Linux irrelevant as target to game studios. For them DirectX and Win32 is what matters, if folks go out of their way to run on Proton, that is Valve's problem.

I wouldn't go that far, I would suggest that any game studio interested in the next 10 years of PC gaming will need to at least start doing testing through Proton/Wine to ensure there's no clear/prominent bugs. It doesn't take a lot of vocal users to elevate or kill a game, and Linux usage has passed that mark at this point... Generally seismic shifts in politics are around the 8% mark in terms of overall population, and Linux usage in the Steam survey is close to 4% and some other metrics have Linux usage over 6%.

Literally half the gaming/hardware focused channels I watch have run at least one, if not several Linux Gaming videos and tests this past year... mostly in the past 4 months and mostly praising the state of Linux gaming. It's not going away.

Re: GOG: Linux "the next major frontier" for gaming as it works on a native client

#254

Post by tracker1 »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #235
pjmlp wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thus making Linux irrelevant as target to game studios. For them DirectX and Win32 is what matters, if folks go out of their way to run on Proton, that is Valve's problem.

> Thus making Linux irrelevant as target to game studios. For them DirectX and Win32 is what matters I don't think so. I rather do believe that many game developers would actually love to give a more native approach for writing GNU/Linux games a try (to make this point more plausible: game developers are very used to game-console-native SDKs). But what these game developers really demand is a very stable user-space A…

I think they'll still target Windows APIs and DirectX... but that they'll test much more heavily for Proton usage to ensure good experience.

Re: GOG: Linux "the next major frontier" for gaming as it works on a native client

#255

Post by hedora »

tombert wrote: post #194
pjmlp wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but when they go out creating that aquarium PC tower with rainbow lights, they will install W11 Pro as usual.

Maybe the people who go hardcore like that, with the obnoxious PC cases, but there are lots of casual-to-less-casual gamers out there who will be happy enough with Bazzite. There’s a whole spectrum of PC gamers, and I think Linux+Proton can appeal to most of them. Let the people spending $10,000 on a glowing case make their own bad decisions.

FWIW: I have a pile of old Intel / NVIDIA machines that no longer boot Windows. They're all > 2GHz, > 8GB DRAM, and have more than enough horsepower to run modern casual titles. Next to that pile, I have a pile of games that no longer run under Windows.

I also have a glowing case PC. Out of the box, it's possible to change the fan light color patterns from Linux.

I had one problem putting Devuan on it:

If you plug the gaming keyboard 2.4GHz dongle into the monitor, the bios doesn't enumerate far enough down the USB tree to find it. So, you can't enter the bios and tell it to boot from USB. Then, the windows setup screen pops up.

After a few force reboots (M$ removed the "shut down cleanly" button from the language chooser), Windows goes into deep diagnostics mode on each boot trying to figure out why it keeps crashing out during the install flow. So, each debug step of "why can't I get into the bios?" takes a few minutes.

The solution was to plug the keyboard dongle directly into the box. The only time the fan has come on after boot (I think it likes to knock the dust off itself when it turns on) was when I told it to download my steam library all at once.

Re: GOG: Linux "the next major frontier" for gaming as it works on a native client

#256

Post by WorldMaker »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #23
bpye wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no DRM on GOG. https://www.gog.com/blog/what-exactly-is-drm-in-video-games-...

I guess depends what you consider DRM, some games appear to have problems https://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/label_the_games_that_have_...

GOG's original and somewhat current line in the sand is "must have an offline-capable installer". For a lot of Good Old Games that is enough to guarantee DRM-free. Unfortunately in the Live Service world it is a concession that allows too many loopholes such as Sony single player games that still need a PlayStation Account and a half-dozen telemetry services active before they get to actual gameplay. Sony, as a particular example worth flogging, also makes use of the loophole that an anti-cheat rootkit can be installed offline, easy.

I think GOG is saying a lot of the right things in terms of Game Preservation being a long term goal for them. I think they are between a rock and a hard place that the store would be a lot less active if they couldn't offer the latest games from companies like Sony, and they want to be on good terms with such companies to get access to their giant back catalogs for Preservation efforts which also presumably includes sales numbers of recent titles for justification.

But yes, I'd also love to see them push back a bit harder on some of these publishers a bit further than "needs an offline-capable installer" and mabye include more steps towards some definition of "should run offline-capable", because yeah things like "Live Services" and account systems and mandatory telemetry systems and rootkit anti-cheat systems are often de facto DRM just wearing another hat of "user convenience" or "achievement tracking" or "game safety" tools. I don't think GOG can make that push alone, though. There are too many industry trends to try to buck to get further in those directions. (Thinking about the recent Anthem shutdown as a recent for instance of a mostly single player game that is entirely unplayable because EA shutdown live services this month.)

Re: GOG: Linux "the next major frontier" for gaming as it works on a native client

#257

Post by drnick1 »

luqtas wrote: post #215
drnick1 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thing is, you don't need a GPU. You would struggle to play any graphically intensive game, old or new, without at least a modest GPU. It's not only AAA.

modern igpus of laptops can run cyberpunk between 24-30 fps... if you target indies, your more than good

That's optimistic, and most probably 1080p low or medium without RT and with upscaling. Not exactly a great gaming experience by 2026 standards.

Re: GOG: Linux "the next major frontier" for gaming as it works on a native client

#258

Post by hedora »

baq wrote: post #182
emsign wrote: post #14

I'm very hopeful that Linux gaming will save the open PC desktop despite big tech is coming to destroy it. Or at least keep PCs alive for another decade. Gamers are still a huge factor as hardware customers. GOG creating a Linux launcher and Steam Box with SteamOS coming out soon should benefit PC users in general not just gamers since Microslop sees Windows like a social experiment where they can test AI on unsuspec…

With GPU, ram and flash prices where they are pc gaming isn’t moving anywhere but backwards for the next couple years, unfortunately.

On the one hand, hardware prices went up.

On the other hand, they didn't go up as much as our grocery bill and other bills. So, they're not keeping up with inflation, at least around here.

Re: GOG: Linux "the next major frontier" for gaming as it works on a native client

#259

Post by LtWorf »

Shorel wrote: post #196
pjmlp wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing to save as long as it relies on game studios using Windows workstations, coding in Visual Studio and targeting DirectX. The goal has to be to make native Linux attractive, so that they actually bother to create native executables, using Vulkan and co. Until then it is no different from playing arcade games with MAME on Linux.

The most stable Linux API is Wine/Win32. There are many older games I can't install on Linux anymore, because they used an older SDL1 or some particular X11 version or some GPU driver that's no longer available for the current kernel. The exact same game, Windows version, can be installed and runs flawlessly on both Linux and Windows. So, native Vulkan executables? Sure, if they can continue to run in 20 years.

There are a lot of older games that won't run on windows 11 as well. In fact most of my games no longer work on windows 11.

Your point?

Re: GOG: Linux "the next major frontier" for gaming as it works on a native client

#260

Post by tracker1 »

drnick1 wrote: post #204
alex_duf wrote: post #28

A lot of hate in the comments, I think it's great that companies are in a position where they think it makes sense financially to support Linux as a target platform.

It's not hate, but we are now at a point where the vast majority of games just run, mostly thanks to Valve and the Wine/DVXK community's efforts. What Linux gamers fear now (with good reason) is that increased interest in the platform from companies more interested in money than freedom will undermine these efforts with anti-consumer and anti-FOSS initiatives, such as closed source clients, DRM, signed kernels, hardw…

This is the mixed bag... and I'm glad that Valve is at the forefront of this one... While I feel the fees may be excessive in a lot of cases (same for mobile app stores), at least Valve seems to be good stewards of PC gaming as a whole, and building a lot of good will in the community.

I don't really want to see locked down hardware in the space any more than there already has been (Nintendo, Sony, X-Box, etc)... I think the PC centered gaming community largely wants a more open platform in general. In the long run, I don't see a lot of solid competition... especially with ever growing legacy libraries of content.

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