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Yes, It's Fascism

theatlantic.com

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Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#371

Post by zahlman »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #366
zahlman wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I thought we hated tone policing here? The guidelines read clearly to me like tone policing is expected: > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to…

You forgot the ones happened to be the reason I responded: > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. > Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.

Those points have nothing to do with tone policing, so I don't understand the objection.

Flagging https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46768275 is completely inappropriate (I do not accuse you specifically). It does not in any way violate HN guidelines. The comment it was responding to clearly did, and was correctly flagged and killed as a result.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#373

Post by zahlman »

tptacek wrote: post #269
sifar wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I think a useful litmus test for these kinds of stories is: do the people who most actively participate on them believe there's a conversation to be had, with multiple perspectives, not all of which agree with theirs? That's what this site is for. This would disqualify more than half of AI/LLM/ stories. This seems like a cope out. It is our inability as tech people to embrace the discomfort that is not rational an…

Huge problem on those stories, too! A lot of those threads are dreadful. My point exactly.

Yes, I've been flagging a fair amount of them too.

Although generally I think the un-nuanced AI hype/doom articles are not nearly as damaging as the flood of one-shot LLM projects being presented under "Show HN" with apparently none of the framing text (HN post, project README, responses to feedback) being human-written.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#374

Post by tptacek »

zahlman wrote: post #373
tptacek wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge problem on those stories, too! A lot of those threads are dreadful. My point exactly.

Yes, I've been flagging a fair amount of them too. Although generally I think the un-nuanced AI hype/doom articles are not nearly as damaging as the flood of one-shot LLM projects being presented under "Show HN" with apparently none of the framing text (HN post, project README, responses to feedback) being human-written.

I think Show HN was due an overhaul even before vibecoding jammed it up, but I agree that's an issue too.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#375

Post by zahlman »

jacquesm wrote: post #343
tombert wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think generally the mods like to avoid anything involving "politics" since it's likely to start a flame war. The issue, of course, is that literally anything can be "political", and moreover by trying to actively avoid political discussions you sort of tacitly endorse the status quo. It's a tough line to draw, and I'd be lying if I said where I knew where to draw it; HN is a fun forum specifically because the moder…

The main reason to avoid flamewars is to protect the atmosphere on HN but you can't make the case that if the world is on fire we can just sit here and pretend it isn't happening and discuss the latest tweak to react as though it is the most important thing in the world. I've long argued for a 'other' category as one overflow method or a homepage that is generic and subject specific pages for those that only want LLM…

[flagged]

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#376

Post by zahlman »

tptacek wrote: post #374
zahlman wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I've been flagging a fair amount of them too. Although generally I think the un-nuanced AI hype/doom articles are not nearly as damaging as the flood of one-shot LLM projects being presented under "Show HN" with apparently none of the framing text (HN post, project README, responses to feedback) being human-written.

I think Show HN was due an overhaul even before vibecoding jammed it up, but I agree that's an issue too.

I'm happy to hear your ideas about this, including off-site (I could email you if you like) if you don't want to go further off topic here.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#377

Post by krapp »

nicbou wrote: post #277
krapp wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm looking at the front page right now and it's entirely "news for hackers." You had to go out of your way to find this thread and make multiple comments complaining about it. Just ignore the thread, or hide it and move on.

Yes, because the flagging system works. I'm advocating for things staying that way

One can see flagged stories and the vast majority including the flagged aren't political in nature. Yet people like yourself single out the minority that are, regardless of how civil the discussion is, and flag them anyway.

So the visibility of these stories isn't the issue, and the quality of discussion isn't the issue, since neither matter.

I wonder what is it that people actually object to?

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#378

Post by mindslight »

zahlman wrote: post #370
mindslight wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. Yes, this is exactly what my framing was doing - it is more substantive , positing a starting point for people who earnestly want to solve this problem. How the heck do we save, or at least triage, our country when we've got a hostile federal executive trying to start a civil war (among many other types of overt damage) ?…

> This conversation is open to people of all political persuasions except Trumpists/fascists > The thing you seem to keep missing is that you were not invited to this conversation I didn't vote for Trump, don't live in the US, wouldn't have voted for Trump, and am not a fascist, so I don't understand the objection. But even if I were any or all of those things, I would not require your permission to post here. It is…

You're supporting the actions of the regime and seemingly echoing a lot of their propaganda. For the purposes of my statement, this makes you a de facto Trumpist. Specifically, the problem is that you're railing directly against the assumptions that were set out to have a productive conversation.

I am not "seeking to establish authoritarian control". I am pointing out that you are being disruptive to good-faith productive conversations. The only reason you seemingly responded to my initial comment was to engage in ideological battle. It's like when someone barges into a discussion about Python, asserting that Python sucks and everyone should use PHP instead. Regardless of whether they have a point or not, it's not particularly germane to conversation for the people who wanted to be talking about Python.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#379

Post by belorn »

messe wrote: post #112

This should not have been flagged off the front page. I really worry for the people in the US, but I'm hopeful it's hegemony is ending.

Can we have a discussion that improves in quality if people dissent to the view of the article, agree with the article, or hold a view that is something in between?

If the answer is no then the risk that someone will flag the article increases dramatically. If the discussion environment isn't open and peaceful then how much more likely isn't it that people will just disengage, flag, and then move on.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#380

Post by johnnyanmac »

zahlman wrote: post #372
johnnyanmac wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Dang will take action any day now...

[flagged]

Mods is a part of the community the same way your manager is part of your team. The power dynamic cannot be ignored and is often used to the advantage of those in power.

Calling out hypocrisy, especially of a superior, is important for order in a community. Otherwise you get a smaller version of the US c. 2025

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