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Yes, It's Fascism

theatlantic.com

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Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#121

Post by gizmov21 »

mocheeze wrote: post #36
wslh wrote: post #18

I don’t understand how there aren’t demonstrations happening almost everywhere in the US by now.

There are though. Regularly.

Seriously lol. MN had HUGE protests the last few days, as did LA when the DHS was there (and why they probably went to somewhere less hostile like MN and soon Maine).

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#122

Post by acqq »

touwer wrote: post #83

The most scaring and amazing thing is not Trump himself, but all the people (suddenly) supporting him and being silent (including too many Democrats) in order to keep their position or for for opportunistic purposes. And destroying democracy along the way. Just like all the secret police agents in Iran or the henchmen of Hitler. CEO's of bigtech. Crypto-libertarians. Too many people are sucking up to wannabe dictator…

Only somebody who isn't aware of whose "Congress speech received multiple standing ovations, touted 'most by any world leader'" would be surprised by that bipartisan support you mention. That happened in 2024, before Trump began his second term, but shows how the system works.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#123

Post by throw0101c »

RealityVoid wrote: post #74
burky wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more than just poorly trained agents. Also framing it as "a gun goes off" doesn't track with the video footage I saw.

The point is, when tense situations happen, you need to have everyone keep their cool. If someone flinches, people die. Repeat this situation many many times over a day, and tragedies will happen. The shooting of Alex Pretti was a long chain of escalatory and poor decisions on the part of ICE (well, assuming here that "good" is defined by not shooting people, I'm sure some in this admin might disagree). I might come…

> The point is, when tense situations happen, you need to have everyone keep their cool. If someone flinches, people die. Repeat this situation many many times over a day, and tragedies will happen.

Except that "flinching" is not happening. An earlier comment of mine:

---

On the most recent event, a reduced-speed video showing one agent (centre, bent over at beginning) removing the victim's firearm from his waistband, then a second agent (left) waiting for the first to get clear, and then pulling his pistol (video stops before any shooting):

* https://x.com/TheWarMonitor/status/2015272806636736647

* https://xcancel.com/TheWarMonitor/status/2015272806636736647

The actual shooting of the victim; view discretion advised:

* https://x.com/TheWarMonitor/status/2015335743443378660

* https://xcancel.com/TheWarMonitor/status/2015335743443378660

---

* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46754974

The second waited for the first guy to be clear, then drew, then started shooting. He was waiting for his opportunity.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#124

Post by drcongo »

michaelbarton wrote: post #91
fallinghawks wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's appalling how they go straight to making things up to suit their narrative, as if video evidence doesn't exist. They know the MAGAs will believe them, and may shed doubt on interpretation for people who aren't that curious about truth. A lie can travel halfway around the world, as they say.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." I remember reading 1984 when I was a kid and enjoying it, at no point did I think it was more than sci-fi though. I suppose it goes to show how much we took for granted the last 80+ years. It also makes me respect Orwell so much more. Which was already very high based on how he makes tea. How was he able to…

If you haven't already seen it, I highly recommend the documentary film "Orwell: 2+2=5", it's considerably better than its IMDb rating would suggest and frames a lot of his writing around recent / current events. It also gives a little insight into his prescience.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#125

Post by quercus »

array_key_first wrote: post #93
quercus wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They literally voted for it.

They voted for something else, they were conned by populist messaging.

Immigration was a pretty big topic during the election. People knew what they were voting for. I find it sad that you find it hard to believe people have civic pride they want to defend.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#126

Post by kh_hk »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #16
testing22321 wrote: post #3

The parallels it dark times in history are too strong to ignore. The only question now is will the people be able to stop the takeover before it’s too late.

After reading this piece I was wondering if there were any examples of a fascist state that were deposed by peace, or whether armed conflict is now inevitable.

Portugal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnation_Revolution

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#127

Post by fugalfervor »

RealityVoid wrote: post #111
fugalfervor wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that? They have posted multiple times in this thread with basically the same post.

I think his edit? I read the edit as him pointing out that political posts get flagged on the front page. But it's obviously not flagged because of the rules, it's flagged because _someone_ is flagging this stuff. I say this because the first minutes of the post existence, it oscillated between flagged and un-flagged. Surely, we also triggered the comment activity trigger that auto-flags the post, some anti-flamewar…

It's kind of subtle, but I think you're right.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#128

Post by mistermaster1 »

donkey_brains wrote: post #95
mistermaster1 wrote: post #80

[flagged]

Ah yes, the “no true fascism” fallacy. Thanks for posting your half-thought out defense of the party that is murdering citizens in the street! I’m sure they appreciate your attempts to keep their jackboots shiny.

Can you point out how I was defending a party? I’m simply saying that the US isn’t a fascist state yet. We can engage, debate and discuss. People are actively out in the streets of MSP and watching and confronting these agents and the incidents are being documented, spread widely and analyzed. Calling it fascism isn’t productive nor is it even front running. I am willing to bet against any of you that this insanity perpetrated by poorly trained or untrained agents running amok in the midwest will be old news by the end of the year and no not because it has been subsumed by some worse class of atrocities. It will have ended, ICE will have ceased these sort of unchecked “operarions” and largely due to public outrage and scrutiny. Actual outrage, scrutiny and genuine activism, not writing articles from an armchair that mischaracterize this as fascism or racism. That sort of thing only perpetuates and makes the rabid crazies who actually support these actions in light of the tragedies sink their jackboots in even harder and empowers them more despite them being in the minority.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#130

Post by throwworhtthrow »

It's not just Trump. Look at how even the weak Republican pushback is framed. They have no moral objection to his actions, only for the risk of blowback.

See Ted Cruz's remarks on Jimmy Kimmel: "[W]hen it is used to silence every conservative in America, we will regret it."

Or Brett Kavanaugh on Lisa Cook: that Trump shouldn't dismiss her because "what goes around comes around [...] if there's a Democrat president".

This is the moderate Republican position: no concern for the harm caused to people on the political left, only concern that they on the right might not get away with it. The MAGA position is, as this article shows, much worse.

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