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Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

netzbremse.de

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Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#121

Post by direwolf20 »

sgjohnson wrote: post #118
Elfener wrote: post #110

ISPs are the worst. Currently I use Telekom's 5G for my home internet connection in Hungary as Telekom is the only company who has a cable in my street, but they refused to sell me wired internet due to the hole they use to take their underground cable up to the houses being already over capacity (it turns out this "hole" serves like the entire street with cables being run across everyone's attic...). I previously us…

> ISPs are the worst. DTAG is not just a run-of-the-mill consumer ISP. They are a global Tier-1 carrier. Which of course makes their behavior all that much worse.

You don't want a tier 1 carrier as your ISP because they are severely limited in connectivity — they only connect to paying customers and other tier 1s. They are to be used as a last resort by the tier 2 ISPs, who provide good packet routing by selecting the best routes from among several backbones.

Never thought I'd see this play out in practice, especially with a consumer ISP. Normally this comes up with server hosting, not consumer ISPs.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#122

Post by lwde »

madduci wrote: post #38

I own a FTTH connection to Telekom since 2018, as the only provider in my street, allowed to install an internet connection (only glass fiber). Since then, I have always used my own device and I maintain a GitHub Snippet in how to connect OpenWRT modem (and by extension, any other modem that supports pppoe), rather than their Huawei SpeedPort crap or the more expensive Fritz Box). Link to Gist : https://gist.github.c…

You have the right to router freedom even with FTTH. And fortunately, with DTAG FTTH, you can also book 1und1 with good peering (:

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#123

Post by lwde »

dzogchen wrote: post #17

I unfortunetely have Deutsche Telekom as my ISP and I can confirm that in the evening websites that use Cloudflare have a latency of one minute or simply do not load at all. I don’t understand why anyone that serves the German market would use Cloudflare. Regardless of who is at fault, you are losing a lot of customers that way.

Just switch to 1und1 with good peering (:

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#124

Post by direwolf20 »

yayachiken wrote: post #104

Small tangent, but I feel like it is a good time to drop the term "net neutrality", which covers way too much ground. In the past in political discussions, the term "violation of net neutrality" was used to protest multiple different issues: * Traffic shaping (e.g. slowing down Bittorrent traffic) * Traffic fast lanes (pay for priority access to some content providers) * Selective zero-rating (exclude some providers…

There's no such thing as paid peering, is there? There's only being a customer. DT wants you to buy transit to get access to their customers.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#125

Post by direwolf20 »

sgjohnson wrote: post #119
yayachiken wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulating peering within the EU would already be a win. The providers are then free to either move out of the EU market, or let their non-EU traffic flow via the (then likely larger) unrestricted pipes at DECIX and AMSIX. If they think that routing everything via EU is cheaper instead of just peering better in the other parts of the world to deliver traffic locally, then be it, that is their own economic freedom to…

> Regulating peering within the EU would already be a win. Regulating peering how? Freedom of commerce is one of the core pillars of the EU. Forcing a company to do business with another company is insanity. If DTAG doesn't want to peer with CloudFlare, you can't force them.

WhatsApp has been required to provide an open API, Apple has been required to provide alternative app stores. Neither one has actually done it because the EU is too pussy to enforce the law, but the legislators clearly had no huge principle disagreement when writing these laws.

Mobile networks have been forced to allow roaming in other countries for a certain low fee, and that is actually enforced and has happened. It's clear the EU has no qualms about forcing companies to do business a certain way when it serves some greater interest.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#126

Post by [deleted] »

0xcb0 wrote: post #86

Telekom is a bunch of strange folks. I lately was not able to send mails, from my private mail servrr to my fathers telekom mail. After investigation I found out my server got blocked. After a decade of working. I mailed them, and they told me to register my mailserver with them. I shall tell them what mails I will send from there and about what content. I couldn’t believe my eyes. Sure, thats how mail was supposed t…

[deleted]

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#127

Post by oytis »

metanonsense wrote: post #120

Honestly a crappy situation. In Germany, Telekom is a monopolistic bully. In evening hours, any service behind Cloudflare more or less stops working (for instance, before I cancelled my subscription, chess.com web assets were delivered with neck-breaking 5kB/s, which made loading a 20MB wasm for stockfish analysis no fun).. but there are absolutely no viable alternatives that aren’t also crappy: Vodafone -> same peer…

I am on o2 and didn't have any problems with availability that I would notice.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#128

Post by yayachiken »

sgjohnson wrote: post #119
yayachiken wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulating peering within the EU would already be a win. The providers are then free to either move out of the EU market, or let their non-EU traffic flow via the (then likely larger) unrestricted pipes at DECIX and AMSIX. If they think that routing everything via EU is cheaper instead of just peering better in the other parts of the world to deliver traffic locally, then be it, that is their own economic freedom to…

> Regulating peering within the EU would already be a win. Regulating peering how? Freedom of commerce is one of the core pillars of the EU. Forcing a company to do business with another company is insanity. If DTAG doesn't want to peer with CloudFlare, you can't force them.

DTAG are also a consumer ISP. A consumer ISP should be considered a utility, and utilities can also be forced to provide certain services. In addition, Internet Exchanges have become so critical for the Internet architecture that they should also have some privileged status.

Legislation could focus on the following general rules, without favoring some providers over the others:

* If you participate on an IX node, there is no reasonable technical or financial reason not to peer with the other participants at that node. Of course this would also mean that participants have to be protected against price-gouging of IXs when they need to scale up their uplink for that reason.

* Alternatively, you could conditionally allow paid peering, but in that case require certain availability guarantees on your general transit connection.

* If you do not want to do business with a certain party, it should be all or nothing. Blacklist them organization-wide. No misleading to consumers that a content provider just appears slow, announce that you do not want to play with e.g. Netflix anymore and if your customers do not like it, they will switch.

* If you want to opt out of all of this regulation, you are free to run fiber yourself and just directly connect with everybody you are interested in. That is expensive? Too bad.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#129

Post by Dilettante_ »

usr1106 wrote: post #45
chpatrick wrote: post #2

I know about this issue so it's great that something is being done about it, but the page really needs a text explainer instead of the just a video.

Reading a couple of pages of the full complaint, starting from page 15 is surprisingly accessible (assuming German is accessible at all to the reader). They claim Telekom keeps their transit access points intentionally underdimensioned. In order to be reachable at decent speed by Telekom customers, internet services need a direct, paid contract with Telekom. Edit: The section numbering is weird. Why does 2.2.0 come a…

>Why does 2.2.0 come after 2.3?

Ask the paper how many 'r's in strawberry

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#130

Post by direwolf20 »

retired wrote: post #71
Namidairo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall, for something like GPON or XGS-PON, you end up having to clone the various attributes of the original for it to work properly. This typically includes serial number, hardware id, firmware identifiers, etc.

Question out of curiosity. I once swapped a TPLink media converter between two homes, both using the same ISP, to debug internet issues and to see if that would improve the situation. Did I do something incredibly illegal? And did my ISP get confused seeing my media converter on the other side of town?

This wouldn't be criminally illegal anywhere unless done with some sort of fraudulent intent, but maybe in some places the ISP could make you swap them back.
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