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Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

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Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#111

Post by nik736 »

0xcb0 wrote: post #86

Telekom is a bunch of strange folks. I lately was not able to send mails, from my private mail servrr to my fathers telekom mail. After investigation I found out my server got blocked. After a decade of working. I mailed them, and they told me to register my mailserver with them. I shall tell them what mails I will send from there and about what content. I couldn’t believe my eyes. Sure, thats how mail was supposed t…

Well, we have to "register" every new IP or new mail server with them as well. It's annoying and a weird system, but they respond quickly and it's just one todo we have to think about.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#112

Post by f1shy »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #65
anthonj wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my impression is that other countries like Italy or France are much more consistent in what they are bad or good at. But it's possible it's just my personal bias.

I have the same (possibly mistaken) impression of Germany as an outsider. The US is also remarkably contradictory in its supposed values. I think it would be interesting if there were a semi-objective measure of this quality.

Maybe that is the point. The contradiction about what you expect, and reality. Like in Italy is expected to go and find out this or that is messy. But Germany has a strong image of responsibility, seriousness, efficiency, etc. And when you see closer, is not.

Also, what I'm not sure, I'm trying to find out, if there was a change in the last 1 or 2 decades, or was always like that. Like now, except for things like you here a siren and cars open like Moises opened the water, in many other things, seems to be not more organized that any other country. Hell, sometimes compared with Bangladesh seems to be lagging behind (point example: birth certificates)

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#113

Post by andersa »

yayachiken wrote: post #104

Small tangent, but I feel like it is a good time to drop the term "net neutrality", which covers way too much ground. In the past in political discussions, the term "violation of net neutrality" was used to protest multiple different issues: * Traffic shaping (e.g. slowing down Bittorrent traffic) * Traffic fast lanes (pay for priority access to some content providers) * Selective zero-rating (exclude some providers…

People use the same word because all of those actions have the same result for an end user.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#114

Post by ahoka »

integralid wrote: post #21
dgxyz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one that always gets me is security and privacy paranoid and lecture me on the Stasi and using Apple phones and how they aren't repairable but then goes and uses unpatched rotten old Android they can't fix anyway and sticks fingers in ears. Nearly every German I know does this and I know a lot of Germans as half my family is German and my ex-partner is German.

I'll bite (I'm not German but I'm close culturally): * Old Androids are not repairable because they're shit, not because a megacorp works hard to make repair impossible * Old Androids may be hacked by a pegasus-like software (just like most new smartphones anyway), but at least the operating system does not lock you into its own closed ecosystem. You may disagree, and correctly, because it's in part irrational, but m…

I have bought an Android phone and I couldn’t even change the font used or use an ad blocker on the browser it comes with. It comes with advertisements on the home screen and if I disable them half of the system functions stop working. Seems it’s not open at all. Sent it back the next week.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#115

Post by progbits »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #95
progbits wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They most likely use GPON so the optic is going to see return traffic for your neighbors. So they make it hard (but not impossible) to bring your own optic or media converter.

AFAIK GPON uses encryption, so you actually get the traffic intended for all your neighbors but can't do anything with it. If you bring your own converter, you wouldn't be able to handle your own traffic either.

Usually yes, but it depends: https://pierrekim.github.io/blog/2016-11-01-gpon-ftth-networ...

Also the authentication might rely on weak secrets. I know my ISP provided FTTH router has a six letter password and a guessable username (derived from my last name), and I can't change either.

Though the research is quite old now. Couldn't find anything recent specifically for DT.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#116

Post by f1shy »

ekianjo wrote: post #18
anthonj wrote: post #5

Germany always surprise me with continuous contradiction in their society. Largest economy in eu but very unstable and riddled with wierd burocracy. Strongest worker protection, but very large amount of lobbysm. Most advanced railway system in eu, transformed into a joke by interdiction from said lobbies. You have to pay a "radio tax" to help funding press and keep it independent, but then fuck net neutrality. And I…

> Most advanced railway system in eu France is certainly better

In fact German ICEs are limited in speed in Germany because of the rails, when they cross to France go faster.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#117

Post by yayachiken »

sgjohnson wrote: post #108
yayachiken wrote: post #104

Small tangent, but I feel like it is a good time to drop the term "net neutrality", which covers way too much ground. In the past in political discussions, the term "violation of net neutrality" was used to protest multiple different issues: * Traffic shaping (e.g. slowing down Bittorrent traffic) * Traffic fast lanes (pay for priority access to some content providers) * Selective zero-rating (exclude some providers…

> For the Telekom case, we would need a different legislation, for example make paid peering agreements between providers illegal or at least regulated, which would then be an incentive to be generally well-connected (free mutual peering is usually considered a win-win scenario unless you are Deutsche Telekom and can use your market power to bully other market participants into another form of rent extraction). And t…

Regulating peering within the EU would already be a win.

The providers are then free to either move out of the EU market, or let their non-EU traffic flow via the (then likely larger) unrestricted pipes at DECIX and AMSIX. If they think that routing everything via EU is cheaper instead of just peering better in the other parts of the world to deliver traffic locally, then be it, that is their own economic freedom to decide so.

But they will realistically not do that. Also, SDNs will likely never go back to serving content in Europe from e.g. the US. Good connectivity is just generally the economically better option.

That being said, T1 companies like Deutsche Telekom who also serve a large consumer base via broadband and mobile and not just other large business networks are probably more vulnerable to such legislation than an exclusive transit provider.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#118

Post by sgjohnson »

Elfener wrote: post #110

ISPs are the worst. Currently I use Telekom's 5G for my home internet connection in Hungary as Telekom is the only company who has a cable in my street, but they refused to sell me wired internet due to the hole they use to take their underground cable up to the houses being already over capacity (it turns out this "hole" serves like the entire street with cables being run across everyone's attic...). I previously us…

> ISPs are the worst.

DTAG is not just a run-of-the-mill consumer ISP. They are a global Tier-1 carrier.

Which of course makes their behavior all that much worse.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#119

Post by sgjohnson »

yayachiken wrote: post #117
sgjohnson wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the Telekom case, we would need a different legislation, for example make paid peering agreements between providers illegal or at least regulated, which would then be an incentive to be generally well-connected (free mutual peering is usually considered a win-win scenario unless you are Deutsche Telekom and can use your market power to bully other market participants into another form of rent extraction). And t…

Regulating peering within the EU would already be a win. The providers are then free to either move out of the EU market, or let their non-EU traffic flow via the (then likely larger) unrestricted pipes at DECIX and AMSIX. If they think that routing everything via EU is cheaper instead of just peering better in the other parts of the world to deliver traffic locally, then be it, that is their own economic freedom to…

> Regulating peering within the EU would already be a win.

Regulating peering how? Freedom of commerce is one of the core pillars of the EU. Forcing a company to do business with another company is insanity.

If DTAG doesn't want to peer with CloudFlare, you can't force them.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#120

Post by metanonsense »

Honestly a crappy situation. In Germany, Telekom is a monopolistic bully. In evening hours, any service behind Cloudflare more or less stops working (for instance, before I cancelled my subscription, chess.com web assets were delivered with neck-breaking 5kB/s, which made loading a 20MB wasm for stockfish analysis no fun).. but there are absolutely no viable alternatives that aren’t also crappy: Vodafone -> same peering idiocy, Starlink -> king Elon). VPNs make things complicated, but are often the only alternative.
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