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Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

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Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#661

Post by jbullock35 »

ajross wrote: post #604
dekhn wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's factually correct to say that none of the videos give a truly clear view of the order of events (specfically with regards to whether the protestor could possibly have wielded their gun while being restrained by agents, or whether he is disarmed by the gray-jacketed agent, or what caused the agents to fire when they did). It might be clearer if the agents were wearing bodycam videos and that footage was r…

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> I don't know if this is your intent or not, but by engaging in this kind of framing you're essentially saying that all violence[1] is excusable by default. We're supposed to live in a society where the opposite is true, I thought.

> [1] All violence by your allied authority figures, that is. We both know you wouldn't grant the same grace and charity to the intentions of the protestors.

This is a disgraceful ad hominem attack. The previous poster's comment is entirely sensible, and it takes a great deal of intellectual dishonesty to portray it as a defense of ICE in any way.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#662

Post by _DeadFred_ »

B1FIDO wrote: post #630
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is video. There was no riot by any standard. How do you know how he got there? How do you know he wasn't already there when ICE arrived? You are making assumptions in order to cast a non-evidence supported judgement. I didn't realize the second amendment limited magazine amount. Yes, a man tried to help up a woman who was pushed to the ground by ICE and stopped further (illegal) excessive assault/battery by ICE…

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You fundamentally don't understand America or Americans. You fundamentally don't understand the Constitution or the rights we by nature have, and that it protects (not grants).

Continue to disparage a man murdered by our government. Continue to point out he was murdered for exercising his constitutional rights. Maybe at some point you will piece it together instead of saying it was justified because he dared exercise his rights. Probably not, you seem pretty set in your ways. But maybe, just maybe you will understand that no American is justified to be murdered by their government for exercising their constitutional rights. And that down the path you lay out lies only bondage and government oppression.

You keep trying to point to magazine capacities as if a Veterans Administration ICU nurse that cared for our veterans, whose malicious act sparking his death was helping a woman up, was somehow nafarrious/justified murdered because he was 'second amendmenting too hard'. Again goes back to why I highlighted who this man Alex was. You want to imply something but not outright say it. Like you want to hide at home instead of exercise scary constitutional rights.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#663

Post by pseudohadamard »

dekhn wrote: post #421
zahlman wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Direct multiple-paragraph quote: > The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) posted on X further details about what led up to the shooting. "DHS law enforcement officers were conducting a targeted operation in Minneapolis against an illegal alien wanted for violent assault, an individual approached US Border Patrol officers with a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun, seen here," the post reads. > O'Hara said that Pretti was…

The statement you say was O'Hara was made by McLaughlin (DHS employee). If the article implies otherwise, it's incorrect. Here's the facts as I see them: A protestor who had a gun he was legally allowed to carry got involved in an incident with ICE/Border Patrol. The protestor was interacting with the agents and other protestors, at which point BP or ICE pepper sprayed him and took him down to the ground. At least 4…

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Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#664

Post by Rapzid »

JumpinJack_Cash wrote: post #465

It's the playbook already seen in Argentina, the Middle East and many other countries. But especially Argentina. The military always has in the back of their mind the idea that they are above people, and this goes from the most deviant and incompetent soldier who still has a 6pack and fighting abilities and thinks all the guys in his small town are wussies all the way up to the highest ranked general who begrudgingly…

This isn't the military. It's worth pointing out our military is very different than those militaries.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#665

Post by bigyabai »

B1FIDO wrote: post #631
lovich wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"sponsored"? Can you run through the rest of your script and get past the Soros bucks part, it's boring at this point.

https://youtu.be/3V65_L3sCMI?si=HushHA5YdZNJsUAk

That is a WSJ opinion piece, it is not a meaningful comparison of US lobbying spend separated by party. Political lobbying is an American problem and most assuredly not limited to democrats.

For example: https://www.statista.com/statistics/788056/us-oil-and-gas-lo...

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#666

Post by TimorousBestie »

zahlman wrote: post #611
ajross wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> but by engaging in this kind of framing you're essentially saying that all [state] violence is excusable by default I disagree that it has that effect. With the assumption of good faith, comments like GP aren't fishing around for an excuse; the point is to highlight what's legally relevant and where there is room to disagree with the interpretation of video. I don't think it's plausible that defense for the agents…

> (I can't tell from the video I've seen who fired or how many shots or anything like that)

You can’t count the number of gunshots? Huh. And here I thought your handle meant zahl + man.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#667

Post by selimthegrim »

komali2 wrote: post #648
thiht wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the MAGA cult will find yet another explanation that this man magically hurt the 4 ICE agents and they all ended up in a hospital somehow, or that carrying weapons with a permit is unacceptable if you vote democrat

That it's a cult needs to be better recognized by the mainstream in the USA. This podcast gave me more insight than I wanted into the Trump cult being well and truly a cult: https://open.spotify.com/show/3hkMl04iMcdayIhxFbL9WT It's two libbed up people talking with their fully steeped Trumpian parents, trying and failing to find common ground. Horrifyingly the parents recently said they would support Trump even if he…

In 2016 I watched not only tax-exempt churches on the airwaves in MS campaigning for Trump but Trump appearing in an ad saying “I’ll make every dream you ever dreamed come true.” It was so blatant I actually filled out the complaint form to the IRS or FEC (I can’t remember which) all the way but didn’t send it.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#668

Post by selimthegrim »

culebron21 wrote: post #641
tim333 wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an interesting take from Garry Kasparov. Excerpts: >what’s happening in Minnesota is method, not madness. Trump wants violence, to radicalize & divide, to create pretext for crackdowns. >...Having lived through a similar, nationwide version of this in Trump's model, Putin's Russia, it’s not easy to fight against ( https://x.com/Kasparov63/status/2015126502845587957 ) I'm not American and not saying it's rig…

Kasparov as usually exaggerates. As a Russian, I can think of only 2 cases he may refer to: 2002 riot after world cup match, when a crowd watched Russia team lose to Japan, then went to destroy displays and cars in Moscow center. It was followed by wrenching the mass rallies laws. Some publicists later, in the '10s, suggested it was orchestrated, but the whole theory forgets that Russian team could have won. You don'…

Is Gessen exaggerating too?

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#669

Post by [deleted] »

dragontamer wrote: post #63

Sounds like ICE's official word right now is that the guy had a gun. But the video clearly indicates that they all tackled him to the ground and were wrestling him maybe 4 vs 1, before they all shot him together. I'm not quite sure how a gun can have come out of this. Maybe the guy while struggling on the ground happened to reach in the direction of someone's gun while getting curbstomped, I dunno. What I'm most worr…

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Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#670

Post by [deleted] »

dragontamer wrote: post #63

Sounds like ICE's official word right now is that the guy had a gun. But the video clearly indicates that they all tackled him to the ground and were wrestling him maybe 4 vs 1, before they all shot him together. I'm not quite sure how a gun can have come out of this. Maybe the guy while struggling on the ground happened to reach in the direction of someone's gun while getting curbstomped, I dunno. What I'm most worr…

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