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EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

eu-inc.org

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Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#421

Post by Am4TIfIsER0ppos »

bgnn wrote: post #303
_petronius wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true of all contract notarization in Germany (even when buying a house, jesus that is a slog), and although it is a bendy-banana level silly thing that people focus on, isn't actually the biggest problem in company founding here. MUCH more problematic is unfavorable tax rules making equity compensation difficult, capital requirements, legal/notary fees, and an investor class that is notoriously skittish. If y…

This here is the problem for most of EU countries. We Dutch are proud how easy it is to do business here. Maybe, compared to some other countries. But starting a BV here and 1 month later finding a representative of a trade union (metal sector, which somehow semiconductors fall under together with car garages, petrol stations, steel factories..) and asking me to come to their office in person to explain what we do, a…

> finding a representative of a trade union

> how much their cut will be

Did you have any employees yet? I guess so. Isn't it the employees' responsibility pay for their union membership?

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#422

Post by Jean-Philipe »

erispoe wrote: post #396
academia_hack wrote: post #168

It's inordinately difficult and expensive to start an LLC or SA in some EU countries. It's even difficult and expensive to _stop_ an LLC and dissolve it. Huge amount of risk and cost on founders and a huge distraction from running a business. I think that EU-Inc _could_ be an improvement, but it needs to avoid the committee laundry list of ideas/requirements/form fields that plagues the EU startup ecosystem. My worry…

You don't need business plans and all that stuff. The problem in Germany for instance is that a GmbH needs 25k of capital + expensive notarization. These are the only two things that need improvement.

Came here to say the same. Founding a company in Germany is way to complicated and expensive... same for dismantling a company. I don't understand why you need a notary for everything.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#423

Post by yujzgzc »

alibarber wrote: post #387
niemandhier wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Germany, this is not correct. You do not have to pay that unless: You earned more than €100,000 this year or more than €25,000 last year.

But there is no threshold for cross-border selling in the EU. Fine if you're selling widgets at a market in Germany - but if you sell software abroad, make sure you're following [each] one of the 27 VAT codes correctly. (From what I understand - would love this to be wrong)

Following US sales tax has way more complexity. In my county alone there are many different rates depending on the city in which the sale is made. Even just finding out authoritatively which jurisdiction to pay taxes to is nontrivial, practically impossible to solve without dedicated software.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#424

Post by WarmWash »

wolvoleo wrote: post #384
torginus wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a true problem in EU (or indeed anywhere)? I don't think starting a company is the bottleneck, it's mostly the inordinate amount of regulations one has to comply with, as well as the strenuous laws around letting workers go, while making people work as contractors being also frowned upon. I'm not sure how any one these is going to change.

Those things are as designed. This is good. We don't want "at-will" employment like in the US. We want to have rights as employees. We want to have social welfare. We want our free healthcare. It's not a bug it's a feature. We don't want an American-style society. Current developments should be enough reason to understand why (and the understanding that Trump's backers are part of a huge group of people on the low si…

The EU has a borderline stagnant economy, couldn't defend itself from Russia, facing population collapse, totally whiffed on the tech scene explosion in the last 25 years, now also missing out on AI. European social obligations are expensive, yet nobody seems to really want to stress about creating new sources of wealth.

At some point Europeans need to look in the mirror, and understand that the last 30 years has been a vacation, and even worse, there is now a whole generation who was born on vacation and thinks it's the norm.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#425

Post by embedding-shape »

philipallstar wrote: post #414
embedding-shape wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If dealing with VAT is a large problem for your business today, running a business might just not be for you, it's very trivial today to get it right and there are even platforms who basically does all the "hard" work for you. But even without those 3rd party solutions, I think the complexity is vastly oversold, it's relatively easy to get right compared to other regulations. Maybe I'm just EU-damaged already though,…

Dealing with anything from day 1 is harder than doing it later when you have predictable money and growth.

Hence most countries has a threshold for when you need to charge the country-specific VAT and let you use the local one until you reach there. It differs by the country as far as I know.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#426

Post by mminer237 »

logicchains wrote: post #227
academia_hack wrote: post #168

It's inordinately difficult and expensive to start an LLC or SA in some EU countries. It's even difficult and expensive to _stop_ an LLC and dissolve it. Huge amount of risk and cost on founders and a huge distraction from running a business. I think that EU-Inc _could_ be an improvement, but it needs to avoid the committee laundry list of ideas/requirements/form fields that plagues the EU startup ecosystem. My worry…

>My worry is that the end result will require notarized declarations of honour, financial plans stretching decades into the future, 30 page business plan documents, reams of corporate governance documents, and tons of other nonsense to protect against the perceived risk that someone who failed at starting a business once fails a second time. That sounds like a really good use for AI.

You mean to process it or to make up stuff to satisfy the regulators?

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#427

Post by ExoticPearTree »

Bewelge wrote: post #326
egorfine wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge spectrum between "require impossible documentation" and "require none". Germany and EU are heading towards the former.

German here. That's not true. What crazy documentation do you require? An ID, proof of residence, and a business plan? (edit: you don't even need a business plan) That being said, everything about the process is annoying and you always have the feeling that you're doing something wrong or forgetting something. Together with some ridiculously slow processing times, it's the perfect combination to frustrate you and I'm…

> ... and a business plan?

Why would the government need a business plan?

It's none of their business what you want to do with your company besides a general description as "software development" or "consulting services" or whatever.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#428

Post by alibarber »

embedding-shape wrote: post #415
alibarber wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they mean that the Estonian company they run now has to file tax returns and pay taxes not only to Estonia but also Spain. The company lives in Estonia. Yeah if they are taking income personally locally then that should go to the country of residence, as is normal. But then if what Estonia considers acceptable standards for tax reporting differs from what Spain considers acceptable, or what they consider 'pro…

> the Estonian company they run now has to file tax returns and pay taxes not only to Estonia but also Spain. Yes, this again makes sense to me. You have a company in Estonia, so that pays taxes in Estonia. You work for this company from Spain, so you pay taxes in Spain. Doesn't it work the same elsewhere? What other ways could it work, assuming we want taxes somewhere ? > But then if what Estonia considers acceptabl…

The Estonian company pays the Spanish resident money to them personally. Indeed it is normal that the Spanish resident has to deal with the Spanish taxes on this money only.

If the Estonian company is supposed to be considered a separate legal person based in Estonia, it shouldn't have to deal with anything Spanish.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#429

Post by ExoticPearTree »

baby wrote: post #298
academia_hack wrote: post #168

It's inordinately difficult and expensive to start an LLC or SA in some EU countries. It's even difficult and expensive to _stop_ an LLC and dissolve it. Huge amount of risk and cost on founders and a huge distraction from running a business. I think that EU-Inc _could_ be an improvement, but it needs to avoid the committee laundry list of ideas/requirements/form fields that plagues the EU startup ecosystem. My worry…

Having a startup in the US is a huge mess due to all the states and taxes, if Europe can make everything digital AND easier, it's a no brainer for us to move our company there.

> Having a startup in the US is a huge mess due to all the states and taxes

Not really, there are services like Avalara that give you the exact tax amount you need to collect from your customers once they fill in the shipping address.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#430

Post by usrnm »

wolvoleo wrote: post #384
torginus wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a true problem in EU (or indeed anywhere)? I don't think starting a company is the bottleneck, it's mostly the inordinate amount of regulations one has to comply with, as well as the strenuous laws around letting workers go, while making people work as contractors being also frowned upon. I'm not sure how any one these is going to change.

Those things are as designed. This is good. We don't want "at-will" employment like in the US. We want to have rights as employees. We want to have social welfare. We want our free healthcare. It's not a bug it's a feature. We don't want an American-style society. Current developments should be enough reason to understand why (and the understanding that Trump's backers are part of a huge group of people on the low si…

Refusal to learn and change, even if it means learning from people you disagree with, is simply arrogant and stupid. The US is the biggest economy in the world with the strongest tech sector in the world, they are obviously doing something right. And many personal accounts from people doing business in the EU in this thread show that the EU is doing at least some things wrong.
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