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EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

eu-inc.org

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Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#381

Post by traceroute66 »

kristoff_it wrote: post #129
traceroute66 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the question if it's possible to create one to support an Open Source project, and which tax benefits donors can get. As the old saying goes ... what has that got to do with the price of eggs ? A non-profit is a non-profit, doesn't matter if you are supporting Open Source or the community homeless. Same goes for donors. A donation is a donation. Codeberg e.v. (a.k.a. Forgejo) is one example that comes to mind, but…

My experience with the US tax system is that you need to get approval to get non-profit status, and more in general I do think this has something to do with the price of eggs in the sense that you should obviously be prevented from being able to setup a non-profit company if what you're doing has nothing charitable about it. I made the mistake of leaving this unsaid, but 501c3 in the US also means that the company is…

> My experience with the US tax system is that you need to get approval to get non-profit status,

I think in the majority of European cases you don't need prior approval. The UK is most likely the biggest exception where you can become either a non-profit or a charity. And if you want to become a charity in the UK, then yes there are more hoops to jump thorugh including approval from Charity Commission.

But for Germany for example, you can just go setup a gGmbH which is simply a non-profit/charitable form of the standard GmbH. The only difference is what you put in your articles of association and how you register with the tax authorities, but you don't need prior authorisation for either, you just apply for the status with the tax authorities post-formation.

Whether non-profit or charity you get tax exemption on both in Europe. The only difference is in the donor experience in some places (e.g. in the UK to get a personal tax break you have to donate to a charity, not a non-profit).

But as above, I think the UK is the exception to the rule, I suspect in most EU countries it is closer to being non-profit == charity with no differentiation.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#382

Post by alibarber »

This is a great initiative that I've been following, but the stumbling block is still 'local taxes [and employment]' - that's still 27 different tax codes to deal with, submitting returns to in 27 different languages.

Even now with cross-border selling, there are 27 different VAT codes to follow when transacting within Europe. Sure, you can report and actually settle it to a single national authority (and then that national process separately).

Unless a country will actually defer parts of its company and tax law to Brussels, for companies present in that country - then I just don't really see what this brings over just starting a limited company in another state (even outside of the EU) - as you'll still have to follow national law in the country where you're resident anyway, which could be anything.

(e.g. I start an Estonian OU with E residency, I live in Finland. I am obliged under Finnish law to submit a return for that company in Finland too as a person of control. In Finnish, along with the Estonian return, in Estonian)

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#383

Post by embedding-shape »

bluecalm wrote: post #336
baby wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a startup in the US is a huge mess due to all the states and taxes, if Europe can make everything digital AND easier, it's a no brainer for us to move our company there.

>>Having a startup in the US is a huge mess due to all the states and taxes, In EU you will need to deal with VAT basically from day one (10k EUR of revenue). In US you will not deal with it until you can afford it as thresholds are very generous.

If dealing with VAT is a large problem for your business today, running a business might just not be for you, it's very trivial today to get it right and there are even platforms who basically does all the "hard" work for you. But even without those 3rd party solutions, I think the complexity is vastly oversold, it's relatively easy to get right compared to other regulations. Maybe I'm just EU-damaged already though, YMMV.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#384

Post by wolvoleo »

torginus wrote: post #376
academia_hack wrote: post #168

It's inordinately difficult and expensive to start an LLC or SA in some EU countries. It's even difficult and expensive to _stop_ an LLC and dissolve it. Huge amount of risk and cost on founders and a huge distraction from running a business. I think that EU-Inc _could_ be an improvement, but it needs to avoid the committee laundry list of ideas/requirements/form fields that plagues the EU startup ecosystem. My worry…

Is this a true problem in EU (or indeed anywhere)? I don't think starting a company is the bottleneck, it's mostly the inordinate amount of regulations one has to comply with, as well as the strenuous laws around letting workers go, while making people work as contractors being also frowned upon. I'm not sure how any one these is going to change.

Those things are as designed. This is good. We don't want "at-will" employment like in the US. We want to have rights as employees. We want to have social welfare. We want our free healthcare.

It's not a bug it's a feature. We don't want an American-style society. Current developments should be enough reason to understand why (and the understanding that Trump's backers are part of a huge group of people on the low side of the wealth gap). If anything we have too much of that already hence the rise of extreme right here too. It's a result of the austerity movements after the 2007 crash.

But this new regulation doesn't invalidate employee rights no. It's just about registration and incorporation.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#385

Post by embedding-shape »

MrJobbo wrote: post #377
embedding-shape wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have to setup a company today, and want the easiest path to EU-wide SaaS, probably Estonia is the way to go, very easy for EU citizens (don't know how the experience would be from outside, if it's even possible).

Too bad that Estonia won't exist after 2027...Russia will gobble it up alongside Latvia and Lithuania.

Yeah, such a shame Estonia isn't in NATO nor the defense clauses of the EU, so they're sitting there all alone at the border...

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#386

Post by AlanYx »

apexalpha wrote: post #252

As a Dutch person I never understood this push until someone told me (and this is true in 2026!!!) that if you open a LLC (Gmbh?) in Germany you have to physically go to the notary and have a person READ OUT all the statutes to you. The whole process including banks accounts etc... can apparently take months in total. Personally I would not create "EU-INC" but just make all local entities legal in every country. Then…

I'm surprised that Germany never relaxed the in-person notarization requirements during COVID. A lot of jurisdictions around the world did change their rules to allow remote notarization.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#387

Post by alibarber »

niemandhier wrote: post #359
bluecalm wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Having a startup in the US is a huge mess due to all the states and taxes, In EU you will need to deal with VAT basically from day one (10k EUR of revenue). In US you will not deal with it until you can afford it as thresholds are very generous.

At least in Germany, this is not correct. You do not have to pay that unless: You earned more than €100,000 this year or more than €25,000 last year.

But there is no threshold for cross-border selling in the EU.

Fine if you're selling widgets at a market in Germany - but if you sell software abroad, make sure you're following [each] one of the 27 VAT codes correctly.

(From what I understand - would love this to be wrong)

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#388

Post by jcmartinezdev »

everfrustrated wrote: post #158
lbreakjai wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, it took me half an hour and 30£ to open a Ltd, which I think is the equivalent of a GmbH. It might have changed, but a few years ago you could go from 0 to a fully functional limited company, with accounting, business account, registered address with mail forwarding, etc. in a matter of days, from the comfort of your sofa.

I think GmbH's have a minimum capital requirement so not entirely the same as UK Ltd which can be opened with £1 of assets. Possibly closer to the US Inc?

In Germany you also have the UG which is like a small GmbH, with 1 eur minimum capital requirement, that is if you like like the 1k (and up to 2k) it cost to set up.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#389

Post by manuelmoreale »

niemandhier wrote: post #359
bluecalm wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Having a startup in the US is a huge mess due to all the states and taxes, In EU you will need to deal with VAT basically from day one (10k EUR of revenue). In US you will not deal with it until you can afford it as thresholds are very generous.

At least in Germany, this is not correct. You do not have to pay that unless: You earned more than €100,000 this year or more than €25,000 last year.

I think they're referring to this https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/vat...

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#390

Post by jcattle »

direwolf20 wrote: post #367
jcattle wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FAQ states: > Imprint: eu-inc.org, Factory Lisbon, Av. Infante Dom Henrique 143, 1950-406 Lisboa, Portugal

Which is odd, because Germany is the country that requires the "imprint", and it absolutely must be labelled "impressum" and not "imprint".

Can you point to any law which states that it has to be Impressum? Could not find anything and I doubt that this naming is a law.

Also: Germany is by far not the only country which requires a sort of imprint.

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