A good (if slightly dated) book on the subject:
How the Wolf Became the Dog by Mark Derr
This is an active, and fast-moving, research area and I'd be keen to read something more up-to-date.
How wolves became dogs
61–70 of 105 posts
Re: How wolves became dogs
#62It's clear that human companionship has shaped wolves into dogs. A weird, perhaps silly question I've had for a while is: how have wolves shaped humans? Has human society in any way been affected by the structure of wolf packs? Did hairless monkeys form stronger tribes because of it? I don't believe for a second that this deep interspecies friendship has been one-sided and hasn't brought psychological if not physical…
On a long enough timeline it’s possible that cat-people and dog-people evolve separately into different species
It's so weird that cats are still so feline, basically miniature tigers/lions but that dogs went so much off the rails compared to majestic wolves. Sure, some dogs are wolves-like but many just lot the plot: chihuahuas, daschhunds (my mom always had those: friendly but... not wolves-like), pugs, sharpeis, etc.
So many are just... Not badass? A wolf is badass. Cats are totally badass: they're natural born killers, hunting billions of poor preys yearly.
My parents are divorced. Father always had huge dogs (St. Bernard, Leonberg, Newfoundland, etc.) while mother always had tiny dogs (daschunds). I loved these dogs but I really hate having to take care of dog poo. So I'm a cat person.
As a bonus my miniature tiger takes care of itself and goes shitting where nobody can see it.
Re: How wolves became dogs
#63It's clear that human companionship has shaped wolves into dogs. A weird, perhaps silly question I've had for a while is: how have wolves shaped humans? Has human society in any way been affected by the structure of wolf packs? Did hairless monkeys form stronger tribes because of it? I don't believe for a second that this deep interspecies friendship has been one-sided and hasn't brought psychological if not physical…
Misconceptions about wolf pack hierarchical structures have led humans to come up with misguided perceptions of being an Alpha, Beta, Sigma, etc…
On the plus side, it makes it easier to write off someone as a loser when they use any of those terms unironically.
Re: How wolves became dogs
#64I am rather surprised the article does not mention the shared hunting technique of pursuing prey until exhaustion as a possible link. Many hunter gather tribes apparently employed this technique and it can still be found today in Africa with the San people. Sharing food or stealing wolf puppies were probably part of the domestication but was this because humans possibly hunted alongside wolves? Humans possibly being…
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Re: How wolves became dogs
#65Next up: Raccoons.
Wouldn't mind killer whales and dolphins while we are at it. We aren't that great about sharing the environment though.
Re: How wolves became dogs
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
On a long enough timeline it’s possible that cat-people and dog-people evolve separately into different species
It's so weird that cats are still so feline, basically miniature tigers/lions but that dogs went so much off the rails compared to majestic wolves. Sure, some dogs are wolves-like but many just lot the plot: chihuahuas, daschhunds (my mom always had those: friendly but... not wolves-like), pugs, sharpeis, etc. So many are just... Not badass? A wolf is badass. Cats are totally badass: they're natural born killers, hun…
Dogs get bred for specific personality traits and to develop physical traits. My border collie was a maniac that just wanted to work all day every day. That herding part of his personality was extremely prevalent. Even if I tossed a treat on the ground, it never would occur to him to use his nose, he'd frantically look all around. Even if it was right under his nose if he didn't see it then it's as if it didn't exist. Likewise, from 1000 yards away I could make subtle hand jesture and he knew to go get his ball that was 1000 yards in another direction and bring it to me; over half our communication was body language and it even had context. Like if we were out somewhere and he was off leash, also 1000 yards away, I could nod my head slightly and he knew it was time to go and he jumped in the truck. Same head nod elsewhere meant something else. It's hard to explain but that was the most connected I've ever been to another creature (even my wife in many ways if I'm being honest, he never misunderstood me :)).
Likewise, I now have a golden doodle. It's like having a giant 5 year old puppy. They've been bred to be docile, kid friendly, playful, cute, non-shedding, and the perfect family/instagram dog. But they're extremely dopey when compared to a border collie.
I'm not sure what cats get bred for. Fur length? Ability to shit in a box? I'm guessing they've not been bred too much on their personality, which is why they are mostly the same and still miniature tigers.
Re: How wolves became dogs
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
On a long enough timeline it’s possible that cat-people and dog-people evolve separately into different species
It's so weird that cats are still so feline, basically miniature tigers/lions but that dogs went so much off the rails compared to majestic wolves. Sure, some dogs are wolves-like but many just lot the plot: chihuahuas, daschhunds (my mom always had those: friendly but... not wolves-like), pugs, sharpeis, etc. So many are just... Not badass? A wolf is badass. Cats are totally badass: they're natural born killers, hun…
Putting aside the greater variety of physical traits that you describe, dogs generally are more adaptable than cats. They are estimated to have twice the number of neurons and are much more malleable whereas cats feel more hardwired into a set of cat behaviours.
I’ve assumed that this greater learning capacity and malleability is both the best part of a dog and a vulnerability that can lead them to become highly anxious and dependent animals.
I’ve had both cats and dogs, and loved them both, but my goodness they are so wildly completely different animals.
Re: How wolves became dogs
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
On a long enough timeline it’s possible that cat-people and dog-people evolve separately into different species
I watched a documentary on dogs that was cheerful until the last 5% when they mentioned modern day dog owners. The film speculated that dogs might be a considered like a parasite that infiltrates human families and causes them to stop breeding humans and instead only have dogs and cats. So if that’s the case, the evolution ends for us :)
I've heard this before. I think better term than parasite is an addictive drug since we created these types of pet dogs and indulge on them. I feel strongly the trend of dog ownership overtaking people having children, while real, is more so a result of modern economic realities regarding cost of housing and raising a child.
Re: How wolves became dogs
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interesting. Counterpoint: since the canines can't keep up with the humans, are they only used to start the hunt? How do they know where the humans are near the end? Until the dog is fully domesticated (OK, I'll go home and await his return. He'll bring me meat!), I don't know how they could cooperate on a many-hour hunt like this. I used to wonder the same about falconry until I met a hawkmaster. The animals don't t…
> Counterpoint: since the canines can't keep up with the humans, are they only used to start the hunt? Can you elaborate here? This is a weird fascination of mine (man+canine). I walk long distances with dogs, here's what I've found and ruminated: 1. If I chase or follow a dog, I can chase them to exhaustion. 2. If I'm walking several miles with a dog, they tend to trot ahead of me and stop and pant and wait for me.…
I think your experience is one of conditioning or even breed type. I have German Wirehair Pointers which I keep in top athletic shape.
When we are in the field they will triple my distance travelled ( verified by GPS ). My outings are typically 8-12 miles and thus 24-36 miles for the dogs. Of course I need to keep them hydrated during this activity.
The behavior of running forward and looking back is most likely what we refer to as checking in. The dog is trying verify where you are heading/doing. In my dog's case they will range out to around 400 yards and then return to with 20 yards and run passed making eye contact as they run by.
Re: How wolves became dogs
#70It's clear that human companionship has shaped wolves into dogs. A weird, perhaps silly question I've had for a while is: how have wolves shaped humans? Has human society in any way been affected by the structure of wolf packs? Did hairless monkeys form stronger tribes because of it? I don't believe for a second that this deep interspecies friendship has been one-sided and hasn't brought psychological if not physical…
I've watched a couple documentaries that discuss your question. I think they mention the aspect about how humans could become more agricultural.
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt10462930
https://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/dogs-that-changed-the-world-...