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iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

developer.apple.com

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Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#411

Post by dagmx »

bangaladore wrote: post #397
dagmx wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter if Apple themselves don’t link the WebKit docs? It’s literally their project and seems to meet their requirements. There’s a lot of things in the requirements like funding that Apple cannot verify. I think you’re being too binary in this. Some of it is very clearly intended to be a “show us you are at least considering these security measures and have practices in place to minimize known issues”. A…

> It’s literally their project and seems to meet their requirements. This is meaningless. Apple can carve out special exceptions for themselves all day long.

What is the exception? I’m saying they meet the same requirements they are asking for other browsers.

This is literally the question I started this thread with and you have gone in to a loop of saying “they can’t enforce this” without any response of substance.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#412

Post by Gabrys1 »

pipeline_peak wrote: post #360
Gabrys1 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let them spend resources however they want. It's not like they are subsidized or anything

>It's not like they are subsidized or anything View sponsors https://ladybird.org/

Am I missing any govt org there?

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#413

Post by crazygringo »

kelthuzad wrote: post #410
crazygringo wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are you switching to your main account to defend your alt? Buddy, your sense of reality is warped if you think two accounts making similar arguments have to be the same person. They're not. But have fun imagining whatever you want. Conspiracies are everywhere, I guess, if you have that kind of mindset...

[flagged]

> That's why you didn't even bother discussing the evidence I've provided

I don't engage in argument with people who accuse me of having another account. If you want to have productive discussions on HN, I suggest you rethink the way you go about them.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#414

Post by otterley »

kelthuzad wrote: post #387
troupo wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Every browser that doesn't jump when Google says 'jump' is driven by malicious actors and intent that I can't articulate beyond some tin-foil conspiracy theories" is not as good an argument as you think it is

[flagged]

> You mean malicious actors like yourself

That’s enough. You’re in violation of the HN guidelines. Personal attacks aren’t allowed here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#416

Post by kayart_dev »

MBCook wrote: post #172

I’m not going to say I think Apple should be able to lock out competing browsers, I know this is going to happen. But God I don’t want this. The iPhone is basically the only thing stopping a total Chrome/Chromium hegemony from ruling the web the way IE did. I don’t think Google will practically abandon things the way Microsoft did. But they will absolutely have the kind of power Microsoft did to force any feature. I…

Although I partially agree with you, Firefox on Android is a wonderful mobile browser (with some weird stuff though). I would love to have the same Firefox on my iOS but it's currently just impossible.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#417

Post by Gareth321 »

madeofpalk wrote: post #285
bloppe wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hobbling browser engines is a key pillar of app store control. Decent PWA support would be a massive blow to Apple's bottom line.

Is Chrome's PWA support on Android a massive glow to Android Play Store's bottom line? I don't buy this line, that Safari is intentionally hobbled to prop up the App Store. What's iOS missing for PWA's to be a viable money-maker for companies? Surely there so much money on the line that we would see companies using them. What does Match.com's portfolio of dating apps need to be viable as websites instead? In reality,…

> Is Chrome's PWA support on Android a massive glow to Android Play Store's bottom line?

Probably, but Android allows side-loading. iOS does not.

> What's iOS missing for PWA's to be a viable money-maker for companies?

Brace yourself.

1. Notifications are hobbled. This is HUGE. Silent pushes, rich notifications, NSE, reliable badge counts, and reliable delivery. This is made worse by:

2. Hobbled background priority. PWAs are aggressively suspended and killed. No long running processes. No guarantee of process execution. IndexedDB and in-memory state may be wiped at any time.

3. PWAs can’t access most system frameworks. Bluetooth (CoreBluetooth). NFC (Core NFC). Background location tracking. HealthKit. HomeKit. CallKit / VoIP. Siri Shortcuts / App Intents. AirDrop. Apple Pay (full API). CarPlay. System share extensions.

4. No access to native rendering pipelines. Performance is severely limited.

5. PWAs have unstable, purgeable memory. No persistent file storage.

6. Limited UX and lifecycle control. No termination callbacks. No suspend notifications. Reloaded arbitrarily. Back/forward gestures conflict with browser.

7. No access to native UI components like FaceID, native text fields, drag and drop across apps, context menus, and haptic feedback.

Apple has done everything they possibly can to ensure PWAs are broken on iOS.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#418

Post by kelthuzad »

crazygringo wrote: post #413
kelthuzad wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> That's why you didn't even bother discussing the evidence I've provided I don't engage in argument with people who accuse me of having another account. If you want to have productive discussions on HN, I suggest you rethink the way you go about them.

[flagged]

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#419

Post by kelthuzad »

otterley wrote: post #414
kelthuzad wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> You mean malicious actors like yourself That’s enough. You’re in violation of the HN guidelines. Personal attacks aren’t allowed here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[flagged]

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#420

Post by bangaladore »

dagmx wrote: post #411
bangaladore wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s literally their project and seems to meet their requirements. This is meaningless. Apple can carve out special exceptions for themselves all day long.

What is the exception? I’m saying they meet the same requirements they are asking for other browsers. This is literally the question I started this thread with and you have gone in to a loop of saying “they can’t enforce this” without any response of substance.

Your "substance" is "trust Apple will enforce something correctly where there isn't a correct answer". I don't agree with that. Apple has a history of interpreting things favorably for themselves and locking 3rd parties from doing the same things for wave hands reasons.

If you are going to make guidelines, make them evaluable. These aren't. If you care about memory safety, either say use a memory safe language or point to an exact reference guide to use to allow XYZ language to satisfy it.

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