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iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

developer.apple.com

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Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#281

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

dcdc123 wrote: post #234
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you don't get me but all browsers in Iphone even firefox and chrome are webkit forks and neither of them allow any sort of extensions on top Orion is the only one I think which still supports firefox or chrome extensions as well. I am sure that it can support PWA or already does, not sure, someone should probably test it out. Theoretically if you can modify the engine enough to run firefox/chrome extensions on it…

I don't think you get how it works. When you download a browser on iOS it does not have an engine _at all_, not even a "WebKit fork". The browser is just a UI and wrapper for one of the engines bundles in iOS. No modifications can be done to the engine whatsoever, it is part of the OS.

Yeah sorry, I don't really have an Iphone so I was just going on a wild hunch.

I would love to discuss about it and how Orion works then.

My question to you is, how is Orion possible to get firefox/chromium extensions working in webkit then, Because I know that Orion's core itself is built on top of webkit but I am wondering what other additions they did to make it possible to have firefox extensions as an example on the Ios

Can you please walk me through how this is possible? I see no other being able to do such a thing. Like how do they make it work then while the engine bundles in Ios.

I also want to ask if possible is that since I can just go to firefox mozilla addon store and get any extension and use it in Orion. Isn't this sort of really similar to an app store itself with 0 restrictions considering that firefox extensions are very unrestricted usually and similar to PWA (not sure)

This is already possible with Orion so I am wondering why more discoveries are not being done in this space. I would love seeing an open source alternative to Orion as well for Iphone perhaps.

Thank you for telling me that browsers work at an operating system level in Ios but can you please tell me how Orion's then able to do such stuff? And can certain more discoveries be made on that front regarding PWA support , extension support similar to orion etc. as well then?

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#282

Post by drnick1 »

bsimpson wrote: post #152
drnick1 wrote: post #11

2026 should be the year when every tech-minded person dumps Apple (and Google) for good and either starting running either a free Android OS (Graphene, Lineage or a couple of other variants) or a Linux phone. At this point, Apple and Google devices are nothing more than instruments of coercion and mass surveillance.

So far as I can tell, Linux phones are still ass. Linux on mobile is probably even more behind than Linux on desktop was in the 90s.

I don't think they're terrible, but there are two main issues: (i) lack of flagship-level hardware, (ii) app compatibility. Issue (ii) is largely mitigated by Waydroid. For the time being, Graphene on a modern Pixel is still the best compromise of freedom and usability though (>99% Android app compatibility, fully degoogled).

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#283

Post by vips7L »

basisword wrote: post #273
vips7L wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing I mentioned Firefox. Ublock on safari and iOS is not the same.

Yes, it's not the same as the one available still on Firefox. But you said "I’d like the extension ecosystem from chrome or Firefox". I'm pointing out that the Chrome one has been limited and now runs the same UBlock version that Safari runs.

Good thing I mentioned Firefox

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#284

Post by geon »

concinds wrote: post #241
MBCook wrote: post #172

I’m not going to say I think Apple should be able to lock out competing browsers, I know this is going to happen. But God I don’t want this. The iPhone is basically the only thing stopping a total Chrome/Chromium hegemony from ruling the web the way IE did. I don’t think Google will practically abandon things the way Microsoft did. But they will absolutely have the kind of power Microsoft did to force any feature. I…

I can't wait until regulators do their job and take away Apple's dictatorial control, in all areas , and all these doom-and-gloom predictions on all these tangential issues end up proving ludicrous. What kind of control would Chrome have over the web? Adding APIs doesn't force the billions of websites to adopt them. So what if a website adds WebBluetooth? You don't want the web to have that anyway, and if you keep us…

> If scrappy Firefox

Because ie at the time was dogshit. FF was such an indisputable improvement that people just had to switch.

Chrome great. There is nothing a newcomer can do to compete.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#285

Post by madeofpalk »

bloppe wrote: post #107
hypeatei wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always thought the same. Obviously there isn't much of a technical hurdle since they have the engineering talent. But, keeping track of all these cross-region rules and training your staff+customers on it has to be quite costly in multiple respects (time, energy, mental models, etc.) My personal opinion is that keeping the browser engine locked down isn't much of a profit generator, unlike maintaining full reign…

Hobbling browser engines is a key pillar of app store control. Decent PWA support would be a massive blow to Apple's bottom line.

Is Chrome's PWA support on Android a massive glow to Android Play Store's bottom line?

I don't buy this line, that Safari is intentionally hobbled to prop up the App Store. What's iOS missing for PWA's to be a viable money-maker for companies? Surely there so much money on the line that we would see companies using them. What does Match.com's portfolio of dating apps need to be viable as websites instead?

In reality, when you actually pay attention to Apple's software engineering practices you realise how incredibly cheap and stingy they are. All the apps are so under funded and under developed. Bugs are introduced all over their native platforms all the time and never fixed.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#286

Post by madeofpalk »

concinds wrote: post #224
browningstreet wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm running 1Blocker on iOS Safari, what am I not getting?

Proper, full blocking of ads and trackers. Just because you can't see most of them doesn't mean the network requests aren't getting through. And you're not getting a free and open-source extension. And you're not getting 3 extra bucks a month in your wallet, because those grifters made you pay for some pixels despite not contributing to the adblock lists their "business" depends on.

what do you mean? 1Blocker blocks network requests.

It might not block everything to the degree of uBlock Origin, but it does block network requests.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#287

Post by madeofpalk »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #281
dcdc123 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you get how it works. When you download a browser on iOS it does not have an engine _at all_, not even a "WebKit fork". The browser is just a UI and wrapper for one of the engines bundles in iOS. No modifications can be done to the engine whatsoever, it is part of the OS.

Yeah sorry, I don't really have an Iphone so I was just going on a wild hunch. I would love to discuss about it and how Orion works then. My question to you is, how is Orion possible to get firefox/chromium extensions working in webkit then, Because I know that Orion's core itself is built on top of webkit but I am wondering what other additions they did to make it possible to have firefox extensions as an example on…

The Firefox/Chromium extension APIs are just javascript. Orion reimplements them with the features that Webkit/JavascriptCore provides.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#288

Post by madeofpalk »

apples_oranges wrote: post #70
GaryBluto wrote: post #69

I'm surprised Apple haven't thrown in the towel and opened things up worldwide yet. It's only a matter of time until it becomes too confusing and problematic to try and run the same system relatively openly in one country and walled in another.

FeatureToggles.swift

eligibilityd

https://theapplewiki.com/wiki/Eligibility

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#289

Post by madeofpalk »

OptionOfT wrote: post #71
rorylawless wrote: post #33

My hope for laws such as the ones Japan and the EU enacted was that companies would see the writing on the wall and change their practices worldwide, if only for cost reasons (it presumably being more expensive to maintain multiple sets of rules.) However, these companies are now so large that they can choose to absorb any inefficiencies on a country-by-country basis.

At a hardware level it seemed to work. Looking at USB-C on iPhones for example. Software wise? Fail. EEA gets to disable start search in Windows 11. RoW does not. Interestingly EEA membership is decided at install time based on your selection, and is not changeable afterwards. iPhones on the other hand have a daemon running that checks your location. It's not based on where you set up the phone. So traveling from Eur…

iPhone getting USB-C was inevitable. I mean, their iPads were USB-C for years before any EU law.

The best the EU can say is that the law moved up the inevitable a year or two.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#290

Post by kalleboo »

leptons wrote: post #80
crazygringo wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to put a stranglehold on innovations on the web I think that's the hypothetical part, it's not reality. Safari continues to be a fully modern browser. It doesn't release new features quite as fast as Chrome, but it does generally adopt them. If Apple were attempting to put a "stranglehold on innovations on the web", Safari's feature set would look very different. But that's not what's happening. Like I said, Apple…

It absolutely is reality. Safari is the worst browser by far , it's been compared to Microsoft's old Internet Explorer browser. But don't take my word for it, lots of people have written about it... https://www.google.com/search?q=safari+is+the+new+ie And Apple purposely will never implement lots of APIs that only their native apps allow (which other browsers implement), specifically to force many developers to creat…

> But don't take my word for it, lots of people have written about it...

You mean that Chrome is the new IE

https://google.com/search?q=chrome+is+the+new+ie

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