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Tesla’s 4680 battery supply chain collapses as partner writes down deal by 99%

electrek.co

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Re: Tesla’s 4680 battery supply chain collapses as partner writes down deal by 99%

#261

Post by anderber »

csa wrote: post #205
anderber wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're underselling what Trump and Musk has done to the stability of Democracy in the US. Aside from all that, there are other American car manufacturers with great EVs: Mustang Mach-E, Chevy Equinox/Bolt/Blazer, etc. Not saying that BYD isn't better, but comparing to Tesla, there is plenty of US competition.

> Aside from all that, there are other American car manufacturers with great EVs: Mustang Mach-E, Chevy Equinox/Bolt/Blazer, etc. Teslas aren’t perfect, and they are definitely starting to get a bit dated, but the list you made has precisely zero “great EVs” imho.

All opinions I suppose, huh?

Re: Tesla’s 4680 battery supply chain collapses as partner writes down deal by 99%

#262

Post by overfeed »

array_key_first wrote: post #232
andsoitis wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If BYD was in the US I think we could check this box reeeeaaally quickly. It would make Tesla irrelevant. Why? What's your logic?

The cars are higher quality and, more importantly, cheaper. US manufacturers can't make a cheap car to save their lives. The average age of cars on US roads is now 13 years, nobody can afford new cars. There's a huge market opportunity here that all our manufacturers are missing, seemingly on purpose. BYD, and others, would absolutely sweep the competition.

> US manufacturers can't make a cheap car to save their lives.

They have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to never make low-margin (read "cheap") cars. If someone is looking for a competitive automotive market, they won't find it in the US. The financial engineering is world-class though.

Re: Tesla’s 4680 battery supply chain collapses as partner writes down deal by 99%

#263

Post by overfeed »

mapontosevenths wrote: post #246
dzhiurgis wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FSD is going to wipe everything off. I’ve tried v13 few weeks ago, knowing it works so well. Still got shocked how good it is. They’ll have to drop the price of it tho, but even then 10M cars * $100 per month is $12b of revenue per year.

How is that a Tesla thing though? I'm fairly certain every auto manufacturer and many non-auto manufacturers are working on it. I doubt they'll be able to patent anything truly important to the process, since others beat them to the market with most of it. Or am I missing something essential?

> How is that a Tesla thing though?

It's not. Waymo could license a version of its stack using the Android model (specifies a minimum sensor suite OEMs have to qualify models on).

Re: Tesla’s 4680 battery supply chain collapses as partner writes down deal by 99%

#264

Post by bgnn »

nxm wrote: post #36
coliveira wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They essentially gave away the market to Chinese companies, while at the same time complaining that China is "stealing" something.

Why didn’t the Europeans come out on top?

Complacency made them sleep on the wheel ehen they doubled down on diesel.

Re: Tesla’s 4680 battery supply chain collapses as partner writes down deal by 99%

#266

Post by andsoitis »

boroboro4 wrote: post #80
andsoitis wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has delivered a better ROI in the same way a ponzi scheme can deliver higher ROI. It sounds like you're arguing that high valuation compared to fundamentals means buyers expect gains from future buyers paying more sounds like a Ponzi, but it isn't, it is speculation. The comparison doesn't make sense. Some surface features of speculative markets can look Ponzi-like, but the underlying mechanics are very differen…

Mechanics is exactly the same - it's not Tesla revenues driving returns for investors, it's new investors putting their money into the stock at very high price.

If you believe Tesla is a Ponzi scheme then you also believe that the SEC is either knowingly keeping a Ponzi scheme going (and it is getting included in indexes) OR the SEC doesn’t know OR you are wrong.

Re: Tesla’s 4680 battery supply chain collapses as partner writes down deal by 99%

#267

Post by SideQuark »

decimalenough wrote: post #218
BoiledCabbage wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredible there is something wrong with a group of people completely unable to see when someone is lying to them. And no matter how many times they are lied to, as long as they are rich enough they believe them. I don't know what to think anymore about this. He has continuously conned his way along and does it just long enough to jump to the next con. Tesla is crashing and somehow people though giving him a hug…

> Tesla is crashing But the stock keeps hitting new all time highs.

Not when accounting for inflation. Then that high was years back.

Re: Tesla’s 4680 battery supply chain collapses as partner writes down deal by 99%

#268

Post by nate »

I know there’s a lot of Tesla/Elon hate here. I’m not denying any of it. I’m just sharing a genuinely strange experience I wasn’t expecting.

We needed a car again. Sold ours a year ago and got by with Uber, rentals, taxis. Life changed a bit and we needed something more predictable. I was planning to buy something used and boring and didn’t really care what.

My wife asked, “What about an EV?” We can’t charge in our rental garage, but there’s a Tesla Supercharger literally across the street. Took a Tesla test drive mostly out of curiosity.

And… I drove maybe 1% of that drive. The rest was on full self driving (FSD).

Fast forward, I now own a Tesla, and about 99% of my driving is on FSD.

Important context: when we picked it up, it was still on v13. It immediately made an illegal turn and scared some pedestrians in a crosswalk. So yes, I get the concern and skepticism. I had it too.

Then v14.2 landed.

Whatever they changed in that release feels real. It’s not just incremental. It feels like a different system. Elon says “we finally cracked it” (and probably says that all the time), so take that with a grain of salt, but with my very small sample size… it kind of looks like they might have.

Two moments that really stuck with me:

While self-driving, the car clearly anticipated a bus making a massive wide turn into our lane and hung way back until the maneuver was complete. It saw that developing long before I did.

At ~70 mph, I was mid lane-change with my blinker on when a driver towing a large trailer decided to drift into the same lane without checking their blind spot. The Tesla instantly aborted the lane change and smoothly moved back, avoiding what would’ve been a nasty accident. No panic, no hard braking, no drama.

I know this probably sounds like shilling. I’m not interested in the politics and don’t want to defend any of that. But it genuinely feels like stepping into the future, and honestly a much safer way to drive.

I want Rivian, Waymo, whoever to nail this too. I hope they do. But right now, Tesla seems to actually have something that crossed a line from “demo” to “wow, this is real.”

I didn’t expect to come away thinking that. But here we are.

Re: Tesla’s 4680 battery supply chain collapses as partner writes down deal by 99%

#269

Post by andsoitis »

majormajor wrote: post #87
andsoitis wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has delivered a better ROI in the same way a ponzi scheme can deliver higher ROI. It sounds like you're arguing that high valuation compared to fundamentals means buyers expect gains from future buyers paying more sounds like a Ponzi, but it isn't, it is speculation. The comparison doesn't make sense. Some surface features of speculative markets can look Ponzi-like, but the underlying mechanics are very differen…

> In a Ponzi-scheme, there is no real product (or it is irrelevant) This part is the smell. "It's not a car company, it's a AI/Robot/whatever company." The valuation is supposedly justified by a future product that perpetually fails to materialize. It's obviously not a classical Ponzi scheme in the mechanical sense where payouts are controlled by a central party. It has major Ponzi vibes though, with new money contin…

Ponzi schemes don’t make $100B revenue, traded on the stock exchange, or make profit.

Re: Tesla’s 4680 battery supply chain collapses as partner writes down deal by 99%

#270

Post by [deleted] »

nate wrote: post #268

I know there’s a lot of Tesla/Elon hate here. I’m not denying any of it. I’m just sharing a genuinely strange experience I wasn’t expecting. We needed a car again. Sold ours a year ago and got by with Uber, rentals, taxis. Life changed a bit and we needed something more predictable. I was planning to buy something used and boring and didn’t really care what. My wife asked, “What about an EV?” We can’t charge in our r…

[deleted]
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