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Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

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Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#471

Post by NetMageSCW »

re-thc wrote: post #414
echelon wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect that there are bigger strides to make with electrics that may eventually turn that around. After many more billions are spent. Is the American consumer going to eat that cost? The government clearly lost its appetite as it isn't subsidizing EVs anymore. The US has cheap fuel and it isn't a strategic issue to develop EVs except to keep US auto internationally competitive. US consumers are still really into…

> America has neither the interest nor the capital to chase EVs or force them down American consumer throats. Only if you see the market continue to be dominated by human drivers. We are potentially moving to self-driving cars like Waymo, Tesla etc then they will get the choice to force what car they like. > The government clearly lost its appetite as it isn't subsidizing EVs anymore. More like "the current" governme…

That potentially is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting for fifty to one hundred years.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#472

Post by foofoo55 »

class3shock wrote: post #237

The F-150 is in one of the markets I think ev's will take over first (small commercial vehicles) but it just was not the right vehicle to start with. To expensive, even when the tax incentives were still a thing, and Ford suffers from having corrupt dealers taking a large cut on top of that. So you are selling to either the top 5% or bigger businesses. If you are a top 5% buying this you want it to tow your expensive…

My experience supports nearly all of this. In 2022 I decided to keep my 2019 F-150 gasser instead of getting a Lightning because the Lightning was ridiculously expensive, even though Covid kept the value of my truck close to what I paid for it. I also didn't want all the Lightning's luxury features that tend to fail and highly depreciate over time. We do >12hr drives for work & family through remote BC and I was still willing to try the EV for such trips but didn't see the payback. In hindsight it was a good choice given the actual range experienced by Lightning owners.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#473

Post by Marsymars »

iknowstuff wrote: post #394
tw04 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> *They're loaded with useless/barely-functional interior electronics that are poor copies of Tesla Having owned both an EV Ford and a Tesla I can say with absolute certainty that the ford runs circles around the Tesla. Outside of having steam games on the screen, Tesla’s infotainment does literally nothing better, and the interface itself feels like an early 2000s Linux gui. Oh, and Ford actually supports carplay an…

[flagged]

So, I haven't driven a Ford EV for any significant amount of time so can't comment on the "navigating via chargers" part, but I'd take Ford's non-EV infotainment system over Tesla's system. Ford's is obnoxiously laggy, basically just above the bar of that I'd consider a shippable product, but Tesla's touchscreen for things that should be buttons is awful, and the lack of Android Auto/Carplay is crippling.

And tangential to the infotainment system, Tesla dropping sat radio receivers is pretty annoying if you're frequently outside of cell service.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#474

Post by NetMageSCW »

lokar wrote: post #451
mattmaroon wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I might have thought that too if I didn’t own commercial vehicles. I own a few and the idea of switching to an EV for them is laughable. Go tow stuff for 8 hours one day and ask yourself “if I had to stop for 30 minutes every 90 miles how would I like this day?” Battery ranges decline by over 50% when towing. The long term health of a battery requires you to keep it within a range of about 60% of the max capacit…

Most heavy trucks are sold to people who don’t really need them, but buy them to signal cultural allegiance and get a tax break.

Citation needed

This sound like every EVangalist who says road trips aren’t important when most everyone takes at least one a year.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#475

Post by NetMageSCW »

mattmaroon wrote: post #419
class3shock wrote: post #237

The F-150 is in one of the markets I think ev's will take over first (small commercial vehicles) but it just was not the right vehicle to start with. To expensive, even when the tax incentives were still a thing, and Ford suffers from having corrupt dealers taking a large cut on top of that. So you are selling to either the top 5% or bigger businesses. If you are a top 5% buying this you want it to tow your expensive…

Yeah I might have thought that too if I didn’t own commercial vehicles. I own a few and the idea of switching to an EV for them is laughable. Go tow stuff for 8 hours one day and ask yourself “if I had to stop for 30 minutes every 90 miles how would I like this day?” Battery ranges decline by over 50% when towing. The long term health of a battery requires you to keep it within a range of about 60% of the max capacit…

There is a lot of short range no/limited tow commercial work that could use a BEV truck (e.g. every gardener/lawncare small business) or a BEV panel van.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#476

Post by [deleted] »

rootusrootus wrote: post #264
sowbug wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home electricity in California is about 45¢/kWh. If your F150 mileage is typical, you're getting about 2 miles per kWh. 600 miles would cost about $135 here in California. Meanwhile, a 20 mpg gas car would cost about $110/month at $3.65/gallon. You must be paying about 4.7 cents per kWh, or about 90% less than you'd pay here.

That's only certain parts of California, right? I mean, a big part, but definitely not all of it. PG&E is a tire fire, I feel bad for you guys.

[deleted]

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#477

Post by tfourb »

mattmaroon wrote: post #438
dpark wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a real concern in the sense that a lot of them care about the capability. Objectively a Ford F-150 is the wrong vehicle for what 90% of its buyers need. But it’s an aspirational purchase. It can go off-road. It can haul a boat. It can haul a bed full of gravel. It doesn’t matter for these purchasers that they rarely if ever actually do any of this.

Yeah but you buy a truck and all of a sudden you have a lot of friends. I might not move furniture regularly, but it’s reeeeal nice to be able to do so when I need to. My dishwasher broke on Christmas Eve when I was hosting so I went to the store and got another and installed it within an hour. Not doing that with my Subaru.

I’ve literally transported dishwashers in a Renault Twingo. And the „small car + trailer“ combo will always carry more than a pickup. Pickups are pure lifestyle.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#478

Post by cyberax »

grogenaut wrote: post #442
rootusrootus wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly a wash, the efficiency on the descent balances the climb, and overall you get respectably close to the same range you'd have gotten on a flat route.

I rented a mach-e recently. Went up to Snoqualamie pass from seattle. I used over 60 miles range in 10 miles on the steep part at the end, 1/6th. Going the other way I got a maybe 20% boost in distance over flat. There were a few places I was able to regen-brake, but I never had the battery go up, only stay flat. And a few times I lost enough speed that I didn't handle an interim flat well. I was extremely disappoint…

That's weird. Seattle-to-Yakima at 70 mph average speed and 85 mph peak speed is about 1.5x the normal energy use for me (260 Wh/m vs 350 Wh/m). Leaving me with 20% of charge when starting at 100% (260 miles): https://imgur.com/a/Dhs38kJ

And this was during the wintertime, so with a reasonable amount of heating.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#479

Post by NetMageSCW »

jen20 wrote: post #271
class3shock wrote: post #237

The F-150 is in one of the markets I think ev's will take over first (small commercial vehicles) but it just was not the right vehicle to start with. To expensive, even when the tax incentives were still a thing, and Ford suffers from having corrupt dealers taking a large cut on top of that. So you are selling to either the top 5% or bigger businesses. If you are a top 5% buying this you want it to tow your expensive…

Not to speak to the rest of the topic, but focusing on direct sales: I'm almost certain Ford would love to sell direct, but the various franchise laws in different states make it next to impossible. On top of this, dealership owners are typically quite powerful in terms of local politics, which makes such laws very difficult to overturn. For example: Texas: https://www.txdmv.gov/dealers/licensing/franchise Florida: h…

Somehow Tesla has managed okay, Ford could if they weren’t worried about their existing dealer base.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#480

Post by [deleted] »

wpm wrote: post #364
hirvi74 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "tow your expensive toy somewhere which ev's suck at currently" Do EVs suck at towing because of battery life? I thought electric engines were often superior to comparable internal combustion engines regarding torque.

Aging Wheels did some tests on YouTube and it’s heavily affected by aerodynamics.

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