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Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

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Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#451

Post by lokar »

mattmaroon wrote: post #419
class3shock wrote: post #237

The F-150 is in one of the markets I think ev's will take over first (small commercial vehicles) but it just was not the right vehicle to start with. To expensive, even when the tax incentives were still a thing, and Ford suffers from having corrupt dealers taking a large cut on top of that. So you are selling to either the top 5% or bigger businesses. If you are a top 5% buying this you want it to tow your expensive…

Yeah I might have thought that too if I didn’t own commercial vehicles. I own a few and the idea of switching to an EV for them is laughable. Go tow stuff for 8 hours one day and ask yourself “if I had to stop for 30 minutes every 90 miles how would I like this day?” Battery ranges decline by over 50% when towing. The long term health of a battery requires you to keep it within a range of about 60% of the max capacit…

Most heavy trucks are sold to people who don’t really need them, but buy them to signal cultural allegiance and get a tax break.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#452

Post by jacquesm »

exabrial wrote: post #43

I expected the "T word" to come out in the article, however this fails to address any of the practical reasons it isn't a good replacement for the value-engineered F-150: * The price isn't right for small businesses. These trucks are quite expensive * They're difficult to repair. A regular F-150 is designed to be repaired; these things are designed like iPhones to be disposable. * Parts availability is scarce, contra…

> A regular F-150 is designed to be repaired

True but they also break, a lot. Workmanship and materials are poor, things that should be made for the life of the car break well before they should. And not just trim, engine and transmission supports, supension and steering components and so on.

They were good cars. In the 70's or so, and it has been steadily down hill from there, even though the engines themselves have improved considerably the rest of the car has only become more and more fragile.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#453

Post by standeven »

asciimov wrote: post #431
class3shock wrote: post #237

The F-150 is in one of the markets I think ev's will take over first (small commercial vehicles) but it just was not the right vehicle to start with. To expensive, even when the tax incentives were still a thing, and Ford suffers from having corrupt dealers taking a large cut on top of that. So you are selling to either the top 5% or bigger businesses. If you are a top 5% buying this you want it to tow your expensive…

Maybe for city truck drivers. For those that don't drive in town, noting beats gas or diesel. Companies need to build a stepping stone truck. Dino-powered generator on an electric platform. Get most of the upside to electric performance, while getting the speed gas refilling.

You just described the new Ramcharger.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#454

Post by defrost »

SoftTalker wrote: post #437
vel0city wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (and practically most people) are rarely to never carrying stacks of full sheets of drywall. Having that be the basis of your needs for a car is absurd for most people. Even then, my minivan can pack some pretty long and pretty large things inside. Meanwhile it's got a better turning radius than most trucks, it has way better visibility, it's far less pedestrian unfriendly, it's got an easier loading height, slidin…

Those were some examples, not an exhaustive list. What about hauling a load of mulch or topsoil, you're not doing that in your nice minivan. Or a bed-load of tree limbs and cut brush? I do that a few times a year. Hauling furniture, firewood, lawn mowers, trash. An open truck bed is the most flexible configuration in my experience. Of course it's not perfect for everything. A utility trailer could do a lot of that to…

A family sedan is a suitable tow vehicle for the large flat bed twin axle + four seven tonne truck spring configured trailer we built 35+ years ago for hauling across broken land in the Pilbara.

It's a good idea to use anti-sway bars on, say, a Hayman-Reese hitch when things get technical and loads want to skid sideways.

Rig your trailer right and you can have a removable gull wing hutch for sleeping in / tool security, etc.

IMHO there's more room on a dedicated heavy load trailer than an SUV "truck" bed and there's usually better tie down with a custom trailer as the rope rails run full length for hitching.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#455

Post by iris-digital »

shawn_w wrote: post #370
godelski wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really miss all the short trucks. For a long time I had a F150 supercab (made in the 90's) and while it was a great truck it was just excessive for 99% of what I used the vehicle for. That includes the vast majority of times I used it to haul and tow! I always envied my friend's smaller truck. Over a decade I think my truck was the better vehicle in only a handful of situations. (Far better to rent one for the day…

>I really miss all the short trucks I hope the Telo pans out (and comes down in price to where I can afford one). Looks funny but it's such an obvious idea. https://www.telotrucks.com/

It's funny because when I saw the Slate, I thought it was cool, but the bed was a bit too short to camp in. And there was a large front trunk, a little too large I thought. If only they could take a bit off the front, and put it in the back.

And then I saw the Telo! Hah, they went too far in the opposite direction. Something between these two is what I'd like.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#456

Post by tooltalk »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #444
tooltalk wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) anti-market. China was likewise taken to the WTO in 2018 and agreed to end their restriction on market access/forced tech transfer, implemented in 2020/2021. Tesla is however still the only foreign automaker operating without a forced JV to this date. 2) restricting market access (and subsidies) to foreign automakers isn't exactly pro-market -- especially to those who were already in China and manufacturing produc…

1) Getting in trouble doesn't make it anti-market. If you give stolen data to enough companies, you encourage competition more than you hinder it. 2) Restricting subsidies reduces the pro-market effect, but overall providing subsidies to such a big number of companies was pro-market. 3) Yes that's anti-market but when you're splitting up such a big market into two still very big markets it's not hugely anti-market. 4…

1) it was anti-market and that's why they were taken to the WTO, not the other around. This violation is also explicitly spelt out in Section 7 Non-Tariff Measures of China's 2001 WTO Accession Protocol. Not sure what point you are making with "stolen data," but subsidies must be given to all or none -- no picking winners or losers. The key idea here is a level playing field.

2) Restricting subsidies to some, but not others based on "local" vs "foreign"?-- ie, anti-market. All NEV subsidies were further conditioned on using Chinese batteries by local Chinese battery "champions" only to funnel them back to local battery industry is an industrial policy, definitely anti-market and anti-consumer.

3) what "two" markets? We are talking strictly about China's internal EV market and the Chinese gov't's anti-market policies; not the rest of the the World.

4) Sure, and the Chinese govt makes the "market regulation" in China. China's NEV market is likewise anti-market, anti-consumer, and corrupt.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#458

Post by frutiger »

nine_k wrote: post #333
kjkjadksj wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rivians are all over socal. I think there is a lot of demand in certain markets.

In NYC al the Amazon delivery trucks I see are purpose-built Rivians. And this is the hyper-frugal, penny-pinching Amazon.

Most of the Amazon delivery trucks I see are big trucks with Ryder on the side or electric cargo bikes with Prime on the side.

This is in Manhattan mostly below 60th St. though, that might be the difference?

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#459

Post by dalyons »

dalyons wrote: post #357
Dylan16807 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What anti-market tactics? My understanding is they poured money over the whole market in a way that helped it grow faster, but didn't pick winners and doesn't subsidize the current pricing.

Yeah this is an outdated talking point, because people can’t accept how far ahead Chinese auto are. They now just have a more advanced, innovative & competitive auto industry, with little subsidies.

subsidies ended in 2022 https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-cut-new-energy-veh...

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#460

Post by standeven »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #153
izend wrote: post #7

I am actually surprised they cancelled the F150 Lightning, I see a lot of them the Metro Vancouver area where a lot of contractors, (gardeners, pool maintenance, labourers, etc...) are driving them as electricity is super cheap here and gasoline is quite expensive.

I can confirm that the F150 Lightning community is basically Canadians.

Yes, tons of these in BC. My friend and several neighbours love theirs.
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