411–420 of 915 posts
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See them all the time around the greater Seattle area. The "certain market" is probably lots of extremely well paying jobs.
There are loads of Rivian in southwest Montana. No idea why. Way way more than Teslas.
No one in top comments is mentioning a key point. It was cheap looking. How the truck looks is important. Outside the bottom end of market, it's a status symbol. I got a tundra TRD earlier this year and I've gotten multiple compliments on it because it's a good looking truck. The F150 lightning looked cheap. The grill is this crappy plastic. And there was no upgrade feature to make it cooler. If they had the option t…
Meh, it just looks like any other truck to me. It even has a sprinkle of the silly "wow very technology!" aesthetic pandering that's typical of EVs. But plenty of strong-selling EVs do that (see: Hyundai). But you're right! An electric pickup truck is a status symbol, but an F-150 isn't a status symbol. The F-150 brand, and the blue oval itself, is associated with being an appliance. The branding is at odds with the…
I've never heard it referred to that way, but you nailed the description.
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> A good old ICE car will be cheaper to make than an EV How much of that is the result of the relatively maturity of the technology? We've been continuously improving ICE based transportation for well over a hundred years. It's been a lot shorter for electric vehicles. I suspect that there are bigger strides to make with electrics that may eventually turn that around.
> I suspect that there are bigger strides to make with electrics that may eventually turn that around. After many more billions are spent. Is the American consumer going to eat that cost? The government clearly lost its appetite as it isn't subsidizing EVs anymore. The US has cheap fuel and it isn't a strategic issue to develop EVs except to keep US auto internationally competitive. US consumers are still really into…
Only if you see the market continue to be dominated by human drivers. We are potentially moving to self-driving cars like Waymo, Tesla etc then they will get the choice to force what car they like.
> The government clearly lost its appetite as it isn't subsidizing EVs anymore.
More like "the current" government. It can always change.
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I think the bigger issue is parts availability over the repairability issue... from what I understand, these have been quite reliable but parts for Ford's EVs have been backordered as much as months, where having a "work truck" down for months is an intolerable position. The cost is also kind of crazy between inflated factory and dealer pricing as much as $20k over sticker price. Yeah, there was some early demand, bu…
I mean the biggest issue is that “trucks” like F-150 are actually used because of US tax system that exempts such massive vehicles from emmision taxes because they are work trucks. They are pretty ineffective work vehicles but some people just love them as a symbol. That symbolism goes completely against electric/green vehicles. In other words - people who buy F-150 would never buy electric vehicle and people who are…
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> A good old ICE car will be cheaper to make than an EV How much of that is the result of the relatively maturity of the technology? We've been continuously improving ICE based transportation for well over a hundred years. It's been a lot shorter for electric vehicles. I suspect that there are bigger strides to make with electrics that may eventually turn that around.
> I suspect that there are bigger strides to make with electrics that may eventually turn that around. After many more billions are spent. Is the American consumer going to eat that cost? The government clearly lost its appetite as it isn't subsidizing EVs anymore. The US has cheap fuel and it isn't a strategic issue to develop EVs except to keep US auto internationally competitive. US consumers are still really into…
But America always has the interest and capital to protect oil interests and supply chains worldwide by being the biggest spender on military, funded by taxpayers.
I expected the "T word" to come out in the article, however this fails to address any of the practical reasons it isn't a good replacement for the value-engineered F-150: * The price isn't right for small businesses. These trucks are quite expensive * They're difficult to repair. A regular F-150 is designed to be repaired; these things are designed like iPhones to be disposable. * Parts availability is scarce, contra…
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> people just love them as a symbol This is an unfortunate trope that is oft repeated by those that live their life in constant upgrade cycles. The regular F-150 is a pinnacle of value engineering for Ford. It's infinitely repairable for owners. Look around on the highway, you will see hundreds of 15+ year old F150s on the road, and a few times a day I will see 25+ year old trucks on the road too. There are thousands…
Also, a truck can be used like a car. But a car cannot be used like a truck. If you need to haul 4x8 sheets of plywood or drywall, dimensional lumber, piping, ladders, etc a truck (or work van) is pretty much it. If I could only afford one car it would be a truck.
Even then, my minivan can pack some pretty long and pretty large things inside. Meanwhile it's got a better turning radius than most trucks, it has way better visibility, it's far less pedestrian unfriendly, it's got an easier loading height, sliding doors make it easier to fit the back five passengers in and out, the stuff I'm hauling doesn't have to risk getting wet or affected by the outside environment. Seems like the minivan is way superior than a bed for suburban life if one needs such a large vehicle.
I've needed to move homes requiring the need for a 24' box truck more than I've needed to haul a stack of drywall around. Should I daily drive a uhaul truck?
The F-150 is in one of the markets I think ev's will take over first (small commercial vehicles) but it just was not the right vehicle to start with. To expensive, even when the tax incentives were still a thing, and Ford suffers from having corrupt dealers taking a large cut on top of that. So you are selling to either the top 5% or bigger businesses. If you are a top 5% buying this you want it to tow your expensive…
Battery ranges decline by over 50% when towing. The long term health of a battery requires you to keep it within a range of about 60% of the max capacity (ie between 20 and 80). So that’s if anything a generous estimate. You’d increase your labor cost by 25% just charging, not to mention that public charging isn’t any cheaper than fuel. I’m not even factoring in lost job profits or overtime.
The margins the Ford dealer takes are not the issue. The cost of the vehicle itself amortized by the hour is much less than the labor cost of operating it. If I could get any EV truck at the same cost as my diesel, I still wouldn’t. If you’ve got two guys out, that’s $50 burnt every time they charge (at least) and that may be 2+ times a day. Your fuel cost is irrelevant. Five minutes at a gas station and a tank of diesel is still cheaper.
It has some use cases I’m sure (delivery vans since it is one worker, city driving, short range) but most commercial vehicle work is simply not going electric given current battery technology.
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90% of F-150s are daily driver grocery-getters. That was the target for the Lightning, not truck stuff.
I live in an area that has probably >100% pick-up ownership per adult male. I've noticed that these people will not go to the grocery store on days when the weather is inclement due to the chance of the groceries getting wet. Seems like a bad vehicle for grocery runs.