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Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

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Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#71

Post by heresie-dabord »

AmVess wrote: post #18
charlesabarnes wrote: post #4

Wow, I was under the impression that these were selling incredibly well. I started to appreciate Ford's strategy recently after they lost my faith after they killed off sedans in the US. I'm now confused again by the company's strategy

Sales drove off a cliff. The larger problem is that Ford has lost multiples of tens of billions trying to do EV's.

> Ford has lost multiples of tens of billions trying to do EVs.

To the observer, Ford has done nothing right in recent years except to build combustion F150s for US buyers.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#72

Post by jakeydus »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #68
kerblang wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay are we just saying they just discontinued one electric F150 in favor of another? Meh. Edit: Oh, an EREV is fancy way to say "hybrid" ok

I get that a hybrid is attractive because of the flexibility, but still the change is a strange decision. EVs are simpler to maintain than ICEs, but a hybrid is more complex, it adds the possible EV problems atop possible ICE problems. Maybe keep the trucks as much they are now, just the essential changes to replace the engine? There's plenty of space on those huge trucks.

I think it's still simpler, actually. IME the most complicated part of an ICE vehicle is the power delivery system. Transmissions are nightmares to work on. Making that all-electric and just using an engine to generate power significantly simplifies the system. I'm not a mechanic though, so take my word with a grain of salt.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#73

Post by LUmBULtERA »

bink wrote: post #59
LUmBULtERA wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that Rivian does fine, but they still aren't profitable are they?

They turned a gross profit, but they've only been selling vehicles for three years. It'll be several more before they are a profitable company. No company can build out two manufacturing hubs (hundreds of millions each) and turn a profit so quickly.

Looking forward to the R2 and hopefully all goes smoothly.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#74

Post by amarant »

hajile wrote: post #63
LUmBULtERA wrote: post #40

I wish if this U.S. administration and U.S. carmakers don't care to promote EVs, that they'd at least let in the Chinese manufacturers that are interested in them.

There have been many demonstrations that F150, cybertruck, and others have short ranges when loaded and even shorter ranges when towing (I saw sub 40 miles on a full charge claimed by some people). If you use your truck as a truck, that’s simply not feasible. If you just use it as expensive transportation, you probably still try to convince yourself by thinking about how you might use it as a truck sometimes and won’…

> I saw sub 40 miles on a full charge claimed by some people

I've seen some people claim the earth is flat, too! That 40 miles figure had 0 connection to reality

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#75

Post by LightBug1 »

cogman10 wrote: post #48
johanvts wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you need a truck? Serious question, in europe professionals have a van, like the Ford e-transit, and if you just need to haul some stuff from your summerhouse sometimes you hitch a trailer to your car. Why do you need a truck? Couldn’t you buy an electric van instead?

> Couldn’t you buy an electric van instead Not sold (really) in the US. There's the VW electric van but that's more of a gimmick than anything else. In the US, there's also just a pretty big infrastructure around tooling trucks for professional work. Not that that doesn't exist for vans in the US, it's just somewhat more common to see trucks having full toolsets on the side for quick access with a decent sized bed. T…

>> "VW electric van but that's more of a gimmick than anything else."

Really? ... I'm seeing them adopted more widely in Europe now by businesses. Perhaps as second hand or lease prices are coming down. Maybe that doesn't translate to the US ...

Quite nostalgic seeing them run around Central London with business signs on their side... much like the originals. My point: not a gimmick in my experience.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#76

Post by galkk »

I think that trucks are in worst position for moving to EV.

Customer base is quite conservative in how the truck should look like. For example,F150 lightning had to look like F150.

While a look of truck (and even ordinary car) is defined by the function - need to have beefy, but somewhat serviceable/accessible engine in the front. There is no need for this in the ev truck like at all. It's all dead space now.

I suspect that proper EV trucks eventually will look like current box-over-engine trucks (similar to kei trucks). Like Super crew truck with standard bed will probably have the same dimensions as current short bed truck, with better turn radius. But it won't look cool, and probably have the same stigma as minivans.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#77

Post by LightBug1 »

api wrote: post #35
nomel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with all but a few EV manufactures [1], they were losing money each sale ( >$30k)[2]. [1] https://www.carscoops.com/2025/03/only-four-ev-brands-are-pr... [2] https://www.theautopian.com/ford-lost-36000-for-every-electr...

The only two car companies to make any meaningful profit on EVs were founded as EV companies first? That’s not that surprising. It’s very hard to make elephants dance. If that remains true it means all these auto companies will be dead in 25 years, or eternally strung along on government support. If there were no tariffs or other market barriers I get the impression that BYD would bulldoze the entire world and there…

100% on BYD ... no one can match their current technology and pricing power. And it's possible they still will do that bulldozing, but much more slowly. Even now I'm seeing strong swapping out of Tesla's for BYD's in London.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#78

Post by XOPJ »

cpursley wrote: post #3
vondur wrote: post #2

I would imagine for 80% of truck owners, having an electric truck is fine. However, if you are towing or carrying heavy loads, they are a bad choice. I suspect most F-150 drivers barely ever do these sorts of things. I have an F-150 but do use it to tow my travel trailer on vacation.

The vast majority of pickup truck owners in America don't use the capabilities enough to make them worth the purchase; the phenomenon is mostly cultural.

I bought an F-150 last year and compared the lightening to their new Hybrid-Powerboost models. The hybrid was better in every single way. I have the same 30amp generator hookup in the bed of the truck, but instead of finding a charger to refuel the truck I can simply put another 25gallons in the tank and head to another job/project.

If they hadn't made the hybrid truck so effective the lightning would have had a chance. I get around 20+mpg on average with a ~600lb load always in the bed.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#79

Post by bdcs »

kerblang wrote: post #51
hnburnsy wrote: post #27

From Ford... Ford Follows Customers to Drive Profitable Growth; Reinvests in Trucks, Hybrids, Affordable EVs, Battery Storage; Takes EV-Related Charges https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/articles/2025/ford-re... >As part of this plan, Ford’s next-generation F-150 Lightning will shift to an extended-range electric vehicle (EREV) architecture and be assembled at the Rouge Electric Vehicle Center in Dearborn, Michig…

Okay are we just saying they just discontinued one electric F150 in favor of another? Meh. Edit: Oh, an EREV is fancy way to say "hybrid" ok

>Oh, an EREV is fancy way to say "hybrid" ok

Kind of. EREVs are what locomotives have been doing for a century (and to a lesser extent barges), which is called diesel-electric in that field. I agree the terminology is lacking, but EREVs are quite compelling (and their high market share in China supports consumer demand).

Hybrid: * ICE must run during regular operation (except for ~very short distances at ~very slow speeds) -- this increases operational costs (oil changes, economy, engine designed for torque and wide RPM range). * Complex drivetrain with wheels moved by electric motors and ICE, axles, etc. * Generally 10-40 miles of EV range

EREV: * Basically an EV with a short range, and whenever you want to charge the battery on the go (or use the waste heat from the ICE) it can use an efficient (Atkinson cycle) engine to do so. (Though american EREVs have used poorly suited engines for parts availability and enormous towing numbers) * Generally 50-200 miles of EV range * Think "EV for daily commute; ICE for road trips (and heating)"

IMO EREVs would've been a better development path than hybrids or pure EVs.[0] Immediately lower TCO in various interest rate environments via highly-flexible battery sizes, no cold or range anxiety issues, technically simple drive train and BTMS.

[0] I mean the Prius made a lot of technical strides given the battery technology/costs and familiarity the industry had with ICE at time. Tesla went full EV which is a very optimistic approach, and works well enough if you stick around the charging network, but the batteries are still expensive and heavy compared to a small ICE + tank.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#80

Post by tracker1 »

exabrial wrote: post #43

I expected the "T word" to come out in the article, however this fails to address any of the practical reasons it isn't a good replacement for the value-engineered F-150: * The price isn't right for small businesses. These trucks are quite expensive * They're difficult to repair. A regular F-150 is designed to be repaired; these things are designed like iPhones to be disposable. * Parts availability is scarce, contra…

I think the bigger issue is parts availability over the repairability issue... from what I understand, these have been quite reliable but parts for Ford's EVs have been backordered as much as months, where having a "work truck" down for months is an intolerable position.

The cost is also kind of crazy between inflated factory and dealer pricing as much as $20k over sticker price. Yeah, there was some early demand, but over-charging really cooled that and the demand overall.

I'm with you on some of the interior features, they're cool, but the overall inflated price is just too much. On the flip side, the Chevy "Work Truck" is kinda too far the other direction imo.

Similar on the more complex exterior, though I actually like it, it's not practical for its' prescibed purpose. If Ford could create a stripped down EV equivalent to Chevy's "Work Truck" at even 50% higher cost, I think it would do very well. They're very good for in-city use in terms of range on a charge, it's definitely good enough for most general tradecraft use, but the bloat and pricing really drag it down. Much like most cars in general these days.

Pretty much the only interesting new car I've seen this year was the Hundai Palasade, which IMO was just a good value for what it is. Kind of disappointing to see Nissan drop the Titan line. While I'd prefer to buy American brands, the fact that is that I don't think they deliver on overall value or reliability as well as competing brands. And it gets muddied further with foreign brands with US assembly and American brands now owned or otherwise operated or significantly built outside the US.

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