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Koralm Railway

infrastruktur.oebb.at

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Re: Koralm Railway

#71

Post by aa-jv »

zzbn00 wrote: post #46
oniony wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To contrast, HS2 here in the UK has cost £40 billion (€45 billion) to date with a further £25 billion (€28 billion) allocated, for a largely superterranean route of 230km.

Would be interesting to read how the Austrian project was contracted out? It seems in the UK the big construction companies have got very good in extracting a lot of money from customers, wonder if things were different in Austria with this project.

Austria tends to have pretty rigorous bean-counters overseeing budgets like this, especially when it comes to public-good services such as railway.

It is one of the things that makes living here so .. infuriating at times .. but also .. rewarding.

Re: Koralm Railway

#72

Post by m4rtink »

cjrp wrote: post #32
stephen_g wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As badly as HS2 has been run, apart from the tunnel length (where HS2 has not too much more than this project) these projects are night and day different. Not just that HS2 Phase 1a/1b is almost double the length and significantly higher design speed (360km/h vs 250km/h), but they are in a different league in terms of civil engineering from the info I can see - this seems to have less than 80 structures (overpasses,…

> this seems to have less than 80 structures (overpasses, bridges, underpasses etc.) whereas HS2 has 175 bridges and 52 viaducts. Doesn't tunnel beat any of those structures in terms of cost/complexity?

HS2 does not go through the complex geology of the Alps.

Re: Koralm Railway

#73

Post by csomar »

saubeidl wrote: post #53
throwaway2037 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean these two? https://image-service.web.oebb.at/infra/.imaging/default/dam... https://image-service.web.oebb.at/infra/.imaging/default/dam...

Yup. Why are the paddings, fonts and colors all over the place? Just decide on one!

NextGenerationEU

Re: Koralm Railway

#74

Post by aa-jv »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #70
e12e wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing geology play a big part - Japan is mostly "new" rock, Alps mostly "old".

Sorry, I don't understand your point. Why is Japan considered "new" and European Alps considered "old"?

The Japanese islands are situated in one of the most geologically active regions on Earth, primarily characterized by multiple subduction zones where four major tectonic plates, producing 'new' Earth, emerge.

The Alps are very, very old in comparison.

Re: Koralm Railway

#75

Post by spacechild1 »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #3

I really waited for this since I was a child. It’s fascinating to see it actually be here.

Me too! But why did you need a quick connection between Klagenfurt and Graz as a child? I would have rather longed for a high speed train between Hermagor and Villach ;-)

Re: Koralm Railway

#76

Post by bluGill »

MangoToupe wrote: post #66
georgefrowny wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily because no one lives underground and there are probably no existing things like property, gas lines, electricity lines, sewers, pipelines, roads, etc to avoid or reroute. And very little in the way of habitat. The longest road tunnel in the world only cost about 100 million in the 90s for 25km so tunneling isn't always a gigantic Big Dig style clusterfuck. In terms of legal complexity, it's fantastica…

> Big Dig style clusterfuck. The big dig is probably the last major success of American infrastructure. Referring to it as a clusterfuck is representative of why we'll never get another one.

IT is also correct - it costs way too much for what we got. It will be nice for future generations that don't have to pay for it, but it doesn't look like a good investment. Now if the costs were more reasonable it could be a great investment.

Re: Koralm Railway

#77

Post by DoktorL »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #11

First, this is a massive accomplishment. When I looked at the Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koralm_Railway ... it looks like a multi-multi-multi-phase project. Hats off to making this work. Second, I noticed how long it took to build this tunnel: Koralm Tunnel -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koralm_Tunnel It is 33km, and it took from 2008 to 2025 to build it. That is a damn long time! The Toei Oedo line i…

You also cannot directly compare a metro line to intercity rail. That line in Tokyo was like what, 20th they built all in the same terrain, they are really good at this by now. Meanwhile, rail tunnels are usually bespoke projects.

Re: Koralm Railway

#78

Post by dachris »

Its sister tunnel - the Semmering Base Tunnel [0] - is scheduled to be completed in 2030. These two combined greatly reduce the travel time from Vienna to Graz and Klagenfurt (combined 1h 15m time saving).

You don't hear that much about great engineering projects today, yet it's still an incredible feat to build those.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semmering_Base_Tunnel

Re: Koralm Railway

#79

Post by flawn »

gbil wrote: post #55
fzeindl wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is mostly within budget, estimated in 2005 were 5.5 billion €, total cost as of today are 5.9 billion €, the difference being largely attributed to the pandemic and later addition of sections.

Is inflation included? Otherwise 5,5 billion in 2005 is >8billion in 2025.

Probably, else the sum wouldn't have worked out the way it did, if we are talking about 5.9€ million as of today.

Re: Koralm Railway

#80

Post by ekjhgkejhgk »

dachris wrote: post #78

Its sister tunnel - the Semmering Base Tunnel [0] - is scheduled to be completed in 2030. These two combined greatly reduce the travel time from Vienna to Graz and Klagenfurt (combined 1h 15m time saving). You don't hear that much about great engineering projects today, yet it's still an incredible feat to build those. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semmering_Base_Tunnel

> You don't hear that much about great engineering projects today

Here's a great engineering project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_test_tunnel

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