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Measure results, not hours

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Re: Measure results, not hours

#51

Post by troels »

That's very sweet, but the problem with this idea is that hours worked is very easy to measure - But value created is much harder. Even if you could measure that relatively precise, what happens if an employee spends a lot of time on a task that later turns out to be worthless. Are you going to punish him for that? That hardly seems fair.

Basically, we measure time worked because it correlates pretty good with effort made and that in turn tends to correlate with value produced. Unless you work in a field where the value is easily measured (Like sales), there really is no alternative.

Re: Measure results, not hours

#53

Post by jasonkester »

snowwrestler wrote: post #23

How do you square this sort of mindset with the well-known demands of entrepreneurship? In other words, if it's possible to do great work in short amounts of time, why do most successful entrepreneurs end up working very long hours to make their companies succeed? If it's possible to check out at 5pm M-F and still excel, why do investors look for the highest possible levels of commitment from the founders in whom the…

> why do most successful entrepreneurs end up working very long hours to make their companies succeed?

There's a mistake in your reasoning in this sentence. An entrepreneur who has to work long hours for years on end is by definition not successful. At least using my definition of success.

I consider myself a very successful entrepreneur, even though my 'preneuring only brings in the equivalent of a modest developer salary. The important part is that it only takes up a few hours of my time each month, leaving the rest open to do what I want.

And, of course, being able to do whatever you want is the core reason to become an entrepreneur.

With that in mind, if you've set off to be your own boss, and you somehow find that you're working longer hours than ever, regardless of the payback, you've failed.

Re: Measure results, not hours

#54

Post by tete »

On the other hand you can also measure things like whether the written code is maintainable, well documented, portable, ...

It's a bit like measuring lines of code or similar things. I kinda wished everybody could be his own boss and be actually be responsible.

Re: Measure results, not hours

#55

Post by keithpeter »

5teev wrote: post #30
shadowmint wrote: post #27

Mm... great article, but I can't help feeling it skips over the important bits. "But your boss is likely to be receptive if you politely raise the question of productivity and show you’re willing to be held accountable for results, rather than hours worked." Yeah right. The problem is that it's extremely non trivial to deconstruct your assumptions and social behaviour. Even if your boss/manager/whatever is clued up a…

At least you get a few quiet hours between 6 and 9 to actually get things done. I've noticed much less resentment of people who come in after 10 and leave after 6. Same hours, different perception. Because somehow, no one sees you come in, but everyone sees you go home.

How would the hours I spend on a remote desktop session count in your office?

I'm a teacher, its outcomes all the way for us, and being there when the class meets.

Re: Measure results, not hours

#56

Post by michaelt »

dsr_ wrote: post #18
will_work4tears wrote: post #17

How does a manager measure results between two guys, one that has 18 very easy todos done, vs a guy with 3 very difficult todos done when the manager can't even comprehend the difference between the difficultly level of the tasks. Then the easy task guy looks like a rockstar, and the rockstar problem solver looks like a lazy douche.

A manager who can't figure out the difference between 18 easy items and 3 difficult items is already incompetent to manage those projects.

Perhaps you've seen the article on the front page about effort estimation for programmers [1]. I know when I'm handed a bug to fix, until I find the cause I have no idea if it'll be a three hour task or a three day task.

If programmers don't know up front how much effort a task will take, how should managers?

[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4621268

Re: Measure results, not hours

#57

Post by nevster »

"Doing a half-day?" is the remark I hate hearing the most when leaving at 5. It's said as a joke and yet it's not.

Upvotes for the person who can come up with a good come-back!

(Note, this is not a problem where I work at the moment. And even at places where it's been said, I just ignore it. Just leave at 5 people!)

Re: Measure results, not hours

#58

Post by scotty79 »

Evbn wrote: post #39
cmdrchris wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At best, I've seen a few instances where very (very) small consulting firms may internally adhere to this and then just bill a client whatever they feel the appropriate amount(s) are for their work, split out into chunks of hours on invoices, so as to give the appearance to the clients that the billable model is in effect.

This is clearly fraud and worth suing and winning over. Charging standard "shop hours" like a mechanic, in advance, is one thing, but just making up a price afterward and pretending it was hours worked?

Billing client for reading internet, paper or chatting by the watercooler is also a fraud. Yet noone cares. As long as client is satisfied with results and the price everything else doesn't matter all that much.

Re: Measure results, not hours

#59

Post by jakobe »

oconnor0 wrote: post #8

"By emphasizing results rather than hours, I'm able to get home at 7 p.m. for dinner with my family nearly every night" And, here, I assumed that by emphasizing results he meant getting home around 5...

When I read the article, I expected that assuming all this responsibility allowed him to go home earlier than 5, or take some afternoons off. But it seems he is only working slightly less overtime. I don't get this work culture.

Re: Measure results, not hours

#60

Post by scotty79 »

There are places where you are paid for the fact that you come into the office and that people who see you are content with you. This creates culture of staying late.

There are places where you bill by the hour. This causes slacking off because you have financial incentives to work longer.

There are almost no places where knowledge workers are paid for results because you can't objectivly asses results. They must be assesed by a human. Manager most likely is too clueless to asses them. He also might be evil and just reward loyalty to him instead of the value of the work done.

I think that the most efficient environment is to pay for each hour but closely monitor what the people are doing and communication between them. You'll have to pay much more then the competition though because people factor in slacking off into their expected pay. So not many companies bother. They prefer to accept some degrees of slacking off especially because that enforces the illusion of company as one happy family.

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