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Measure results, not hours

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11–20 of 84 posts

Re: Measure results, not hours

#11
This is something that the large clients for legal services have been advocating for a while. It is generally called project based billing. Many legal fields operate more or less on project based billing nowadays, even if they technically operate on hourly billing. (Usually the billing is hourly but there is understanding about how long each project should take).

I think this is very dangerous and tends to reward mediocre work. But it is probably inevitable too, because in the legal field a large client will usually eventually get what he/she wants.

This article actually shows a big danger about project based billing. Notice his second piece of advice (Reduce Reading). Can you imagine having a lawyer who thinks he does not have to read everything to the end? This will end badly for some poor client.

Re: Measure results, not hours

#12

>By applying an industrial-age mind-set to 21st-century professionals, many organizations are undermining incentives for workers to be efficient. Every step of the American education system felt like this.

That's because the American educational system was set up by industrialists to produce a trained workforce, not for some sort of noble philosophical ideal of enlightenment. You'll note that none of the scions of industry attend public school.

Private schools are mostly the same structurally, they just have better tracking/pace since class sizes are smaller, and they can exclude disruptive students.

Re: Measure results, not hours

#13
post #7

Interesting timing. The NYTimes has a piece today on Dick Costolo[1] which mentions Peter Thiel talking about Twitter employees heading home early and how Costolo is staying at work late to get employees to do the same thing. Even the leading companies/leading people in our industry seem to look at 'hours spent at work' as a signal of overall productivity. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/technology/dick-costolo-of.…

It's broader than productivity alone. A team that's working long hours can be perceived as more committed, dedicated and in a fighting mood.

It's really all about team dynamics and corporate culture.

See, successful entrepreneurs are, more often than not, binary beings that totally devote themselves to their company and expect other the other people in the team to do so as well. Someone can come and work for 5 hours and accomplish just the same as he would over 11 hours but it may send the wrong message to the group - that the company is secondary to personal life and that just meeting your obligations is really enough, no need to do beyond that.

Furthermore, some people wouldn't be able to accomplish the same over a short working day; how would that make them feel spending 11 hour days in the office, while their colleague leaves after 6 hours and still gets appreciated?

Re: Measure results, not hours

#14
post #7

Interesting timing. The NYTimes has a piece today on Dick Costolo[1] which mentions Peter Thiel talking about Twitter employees heading home early and how Costolo is staying at work late to get employees to do the same thing. Even the leading companies/leading people in our industry seem to look at 'hours spent at work' as a signal of overall productivity. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/technology/dick-costolo-of.…

It's broader than productivity alone. A team that's working long hours can be perceived as more committed, dedicated and in a fighting mood. It's really all about team dynamics and corporate culture. See, successful entrepreneurs are, more often than not, binary beings that totally devote themselves to their company and expect other the other people in the team to do so as well. Someone can come and work for 5 hours…

> how would that make them feel spending 11 hour days in the office, while their colleague leaves after 6 hours and still gets appreciated?

Hopefully like an unproductive lump who needs to learn how to turn off Hacker News and Facebook during the day so they can also get some work done.

Re: Measure results, not hours

#15
The author is absolutely correct.

I can't begin to tell you how much this bugs me. It's not about how many hours it takes to do something, it's about the value created from the service or product. Is the answer the author has given worth more or less because his knoweldge and expertise allow him to provide an answer quickly? With hourly billing, it's always less. The client sees it as trivial and the employer sees little or no value.

I see it the other way. Being able to provide an answer or solution quickly shouild be rewarded. Being held accountable for correct and timely results are much more important than simply clocking hours.

Billing hourly, paying employees hourly, etc. are all counter-productive to incentivising knowledge workers to excel. Even the honest ones.

Re: Measure results, not hours

#16
This seems to be common sense to everyone who is not a "boss" and unheard of to anyone who is. Find me a company that actually follows this philosophy, and sign me up. I have yet to find one real example.

Here's the real problem companies face with people like me. If I only had to get the work done, I could be in the office for maybe one day a week. With all that free time, I would be able to do something on my own so that I wouldn't even need to work for them at all anymore. Then what do they do? By trapping me there for 40 hours a week and limited vacation time, it's very difficult for me to comfortably escape.

Re: Measure results, not hours

#17
How does a manager measure results between two guys, one that has 18 very easy todos done, vs a guy with 3 very difficult todos done when the manager can't even comprehend the difference between the difficultly level of the tasks. Then the easy task guy looks like a rockstar, and the rockstar problem solver looks like a lazy douche.

Re: Measure results, not hours

#18

How does a manager measure results between two guys, one that has 18 very easy todos done, vs a guy with 3 very difficult todos done when the manager can't even comprehend the difference between the difficultly level of the tasks. Then the easy task guy looks like a rockstar, and the rockstar problem solver looks like a lazy douche.

A manager who can't figure out the difference between 18 easy items and 3 difficult items is already incompetent to manage those projects.

Re: Measure results, not hours

#19

How does a manager measure results between two guys, one that has 18 very easy todos done, vs a guy with 3 very difficult todos done when the manager can't even comprehend the difference between the difficultly level of the tasks. Then the easy task guy looks like a rockstar, and the rockstar problem solver looks like a lazy douche.

The bad manager cannot tell the difference, and usually ends up looking like an idiot to his director.

The problem with management types vs. individual contributors is that managers have more time in the org and usually have friends who can bail them out. So a bad worker will get fired, but a bad manager will get reassigned or even promoted.

Re: Measure results, not hours

#20
"committed" "dedicated" "hard worker"

None of these address intelligence nor even competence - and I think it is a mistake to assume a good manager wouldn't realize that. If a star performer showed up late, left early and never arrived to a meeting on time but they were doing amazing work, they'd be given a lot of leeway to do that - again, by a good manager.

That is how sales works. Top salesmen do whatever they want, nobody questions their methods nor cares about how 'committed' they seem - the only thing that matters is how much more money they are bringing the company than everybody else.

I've never worked at a Google/Facebook/Amazon class tech company but I would imagine it is similar with 10x engineers and designers there.

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