Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

jacobin.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 281 posts

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#231

Post by mindslight »

LogicFailsMe wrote: post #226
mindslight wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the Democratic party has strongly embraced the 2-minute hate in much of their propaganda, I do not think the both sidesism is warranted. The point is that Republicans have taken their 2-minute hate dynamic of the past several decades, and retconned that anger as the entirety of their policy platform. Whereas Democratic leaders are still trying for constructive policies that abide by their own ideals. We can cri…

My take on the democrats at this point is they are the party of learned helplessness. And that's just as harmful as the party of nihilism when they both drop their differences to block the emergence of new voices and new parties. But I agree they have become the useful idiots for regulatory capture. The right's hatred of renewables is just stupid.

Learned helplessness is not as harmful as nihilism. Learned helplessness has lead to inaction and ineffectiveness, which has at least allowed for stability. Whereas nihilism has led to lashing out, which is quite destructive.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#232

Post by next_xibalba »

Hikikomori wrote: post #194
next_xibalba wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he's actively working to make the world a horrible place for anybody who isn't in his circle Can you be more specific? I see similar claims thrown about him, but they don’t really hold up to scrutiny and often o. The basis of straw men claims.

He believes that democracy has run its course (did so in the 2008 crash as well) and believes in the ideas of Curtis Yarvin that think that tech CEOs should reign as feudal lords over small fiefdoms that he calls network states. Essentially the plan is to break the federal government and buy up its assets for pennies on the dollar. If this sounds bad for most people is up to you I guess.

Do you have any legitimate quotes or clips of him saying or writing any of these things? Not you or someone else paraphrasing, but actual, verbatim quotes. Bc as I have said, I've read and watched quite a bit of Thiel and none of this rings true.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#234

Post by TrnsltLife »

zingababba wrote: post #164

It's crazy how this is trickling down. I work with someone who has recently started openly talking about the antichrist and is convinced the final revelation is going to occur. This person has always been loony but it seems to be going into hyperdrive.

It's a normal part of Christian belief and biblical teaching, e.g. 1 John 2:18, 22:

18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. ... 22 Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son.

It has also always been a Christian belief that Jesus will return, the current world system will end, and God will establish new heavens and a new earth.

2 Peter 3 talks about this. It's too long to quote the whole chapter but here are some call outs.

https://biblehub.com/bsb/2_peter/3.htm

4 “Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.” ... 8 Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#235

Post by LogicFailsMe »

mindslight wrote: post #231
LogicFailsMe wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take on the democrats at this point is they are the party of learned helplessness. And that's just as harmful as the party of nihilism when they both drop their differences to block the emergence of new voices and new parties. But I agree they have become the useful idiots for regulatory capture. The right's hatred of renewables is just stupid.

Learned helplessness is not as harmful as nihilism. Learned helplessness has lead to inaction and ineffectiveness, which has at least allowed for stability. Whereas nihilism has led to lashing out, which is quite destructive.

Learned helplessness is just another term for complicit IMO. I'm reminded of the streaming media people whining about licensing terms rather than taking responsibility for their poor job at negotiating with the studios and other holders of media.

if these supposed elected representatives can't take the responsibilities of their jobs and they just want the perks, they need to resign to make room for someone better. Not holding my breath there.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#236

Post by MiiMe19 »

hearsathought wrote: post #183
MiiMe19 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communism and its associated pairings have killed far more than capitalism ever will. Communism only ever exists when paired with an authoritarian government and cannot exist without one. Capitalism can (and does) exist without an authoritarian government. There is a reason why the only people that defend communism have never lived under it.

> Communism and its associated pairings have killed far more than capitalism ever will. Ever will? The "capitalists" have already killed far more. Did communists wipe out a continent full of native americans? Did communists killed more people than the Nazi germany, the US, british empire, chinese empire, japanese, etc in ww2? Did communists kill more people during both the vietnam wars? > Communism only ever exists w…

Capitalism did not kill the natives, the colonial governments and other European governments did. Communism implies evil/bad/death, but capitalism does not. And even then, the "system" in place at the time was mercantilism, not capitalism. For your last argument, you do not need to be Gordon Ramsay to know when something tastes bad. Once again, growing up under communism implies with 99% certainty that you do not want communism. It is an implication, not a bi-implication.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#237

Post by MiiMe19 »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #219
MiiMe19 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communism and its associated pairings have killed far more than capitalism ever will. Communism only ever exists when paired with an authoritarian government and cannot exist without one. Capitalism can (and does) exist without an authoritarian government. There is a reason why the only people that defend communism have never lived under it.

capitalism is great just don't ask the natives about it

Communism always implies death and destruction, capitalism does not. I am not saying that capitalism and its associated governments always result in perfect or even good outcomes, but that communism always results in bad ones. And either way, the natives were wiped out by governments under mercantilism, not capitalism.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#238

Post by palmotea »

jhbadger wrote: post #216
palmotea wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would have never believed it 10 years ago. I actually think there is a high probability the world will be ended, not by war or natural disaster, but by an honest to god trillionaire super villain. IMHO, that's the obvious end-state of AGI: the economy eats the world and a few trillionaires sitting atop AGI armies control the economy, and nearly everyone else becomes powerless, irrelevent, and eventually "ended."

The problem with that dystopia is how those people would remain rich if nobody below them could afford their products. Henry Ford was a terrible person in many ways, but his idea of paying his auto workers decently so they could afford to buy the Model T's they were building was not only good for the workers but smart business.

> The problem with that dystopia is how those people would remain rich if nobody below them could afford their products.

That's not actually a problem with it.

For a business owner, customers and employees are actually just a means to an end (customers yield profit, which is money, which is power and control within capitalism; employees are the means of converting money to power and control).

AGI could let a select group of well-positioned business owners to skip straight to power and control. There will probably be a transition state while they suck the resources out of the rest of society by providing some product or service, but once that's done they can just use AGI to use those resources for their own ends without needing anyone else.

An economy with AGI would be a radical change from our current economy, and would work very differently.

Basically: imagine Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, and Jeff Bezos owning all the vast majority of all resources of the world, made invincible by AGI drone-swarms, harnessing those resources to build whatever whim they have. Does Musk want cover New York City with massive pyramids built in his honor? AGI will demolish it, mine the needed materials, and build them for him.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#239

Post by kcplate »

mushufasa wrote: post #129
jmathai wrote: post #13

Maybe slightly off topic to the article, but I don't really care what Peter Thiel has to say. I do think we need to collectively think about how to not give these people a microphone. It's one thing to have concentrated wealth. It's a very different thing to have concentrated wealth and people's attention. I think that's a much more interesting discussion :).

Fundamentally money can buy a microphone (including literally). That said, buying airtime/ads does is not sufficient to create traction with your ideas. I have worked at plenty of foundations that spend a lot of money to "raise awareness" on various issues, which ultimately goes nowhere. IMHO the zany, outlandish claims by Thiel, are gaining attention because of their inherent shock-value. I sent a text to my girlfri…

> incredulous that Thiel was reported to claim the Pope is now an antichrist

I don’t even think the claim has shock value anymore. I have a buddy who has thought that about the last 3 popes.

Just because Thiel is saying it doesn’t mean that it is all of a sudden gaining traction. You could throw a dart at a random spot on a map of the US and probably find 10-15 preachers within a hundred mile radius of the landing spot saying the same sort of thing to their congregation at any time over the last 75 years. Certainly in aggregate reaching far more people with far more influence than Thiel could hope to with his latest efforts.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#240

Post by bigyabai »

myth_drannon wrote: post #188
moogly wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think you're being subtle? Anyway, Israel's genocide is pretty irrelevant to this subthread.

Darn, can't hide anything from the "but it's a genocide squad", eh?

Not since AIPAC paid-off American politicians to look the other way, no. That is a grave miscarriage of justice, and will be scrutinized until the Third Temple is returned to rubble.

Alas, it's what Likud wants and we can't let their bloodlust frame America's future.

Post reply on HN