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Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

jacobin.com

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Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#171

Post by palmotea »

throw310822 wrote: post #22
jmathai wrote: post #13

Maybe slightly off topic to the article, but I don't really care what Peter Thiel has to say. I do think we need to collectively think about how to not give these people a microphone. It's one thing to have concentrated wealth. It's a very different thing to have concentrated wealth and people's attention. I think that's a much more interesting discussion :).

This is the article's second sentence: "Thiel’s lurid, apocalyptic view of world politics may be ludicrous or even deranged, but his wealth and power mean that we can’t afford to ignore it."

This exactly. There are different kind of attention. We shouldn't pay attention to the billionaires in a submissive follower mode; or in a "let them set the agenda" mode; but in a wary, defensive mode (ready to oppose or try to get out of the way).

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#172

Post by palmotea »

dpark wrote: post #80
fastball wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power might be hard to ignore, but wealth you literally just can.

It’s naive to believe these are not connected. Wealth buys power.

> It’s naive to believe these are not connected. Wealth buys power.

Raw power > wealth (see Putin, Vladimir: he doesn't need wealth or even to "own" anything, his raw power gets him everything wealth can buy and more). But for weaker people who aren't so powerful to control the system itself, wealth can get you a lot of power within that system.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#173

Post by relaxing »

tech_ken wrote: post #121

> This is what Thiel’s apocalyptic geopolitics looks like in practice: a twisted military-industrial eschatology where an AI-powered genocide is understood to be “restraining” rather than enacting the end of the world. I could have used some more explication on the connection between Thiel's ideology and Palantir's project portfolio. I felt like this article was structured like "Part 1: Thiel is Crazy, Part 2: Palant…

I think the author assumes a basic familiarity with the subject. FYI Thiel is chairman and co-founder of Palantir.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#174

Post by relaxing »

havblue wrote: post #85

While it's possible this is true, I would have preferred that the article make its own case on why Thiel is crazy and not just cite the Guardian. The article is written for someone who already agrees with the title.

Jacobin magazine is a leftist partisan publication, so yeah.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#175

Post by MiiMe19 »

hearsathought wrote: post #136
MiiMe19 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100M+ dead ideology

Not sure why people keep bringing this up. Every ideology has blood on their hands, but communism is nowhere near #1. Try comparing the death tolls/genocides/etc of the capitalist/anti-communist side with the communist side.

Communism and its associated pairings have killed far more than capitalism ever will. Communism only ever exists when paired with an authoritarian government and cannot exist without one. Capitalism can (and does) exist without an authoritarian government. There is a reason why the only people that defend communism have never lived under it.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#176

Post by [deleted] »

poszlem wrote: post #40
almosthere wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "facists" is a tiring word to describe them. I would recommend christian nationalists.

I mean - obviously the modern day communists rarely use the original name too. But I guess we are adults and know that in reality, under all of that political marketing, we are talking about fascists and communists.

[deleted]

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#177

Post by tech_ken »

relaxing wrote: post #173
tech_ken wrote: post #121

> This is what Thiel’s apocalyptic geopolitics looks like in practice: a twisted military-industrial eschatology where an AI-powered genocide is understood to be “restraining” rather than enacting the end of the world. I could have used some more explication on the connection between Thiel's ideology and Palantir's project portfolio. I felt like this article was structured like "Part 1: Thiel is Crazy, Part 2: Palant…

I think the author assumes a basic familiarity with the subject. FYI Thiel is chairman and co-founder of Palantir.

Okay :) I actually do have a pretty deep familiarity with all of this and that's why I'm criticizing the article. It felt like a rehash of known facts (Thiel is a christian fascist, his company Palantir does innovatively horrible stuff), rather than drawing new connections between those known facts. At a fine-grain I want to know how his ideology underpins the business decisions of his company, I don't need someone to gesture at the two together and mumble something about eschatology.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#178

Post by relaxing »

adolph wrote: post #74

If you can parse the academic jargon and get past the ad hominem, the article is a basic meditation on how the state of information technology continues to support both centralization and distribution of decisions. This ambivalence mirrors the paradox of American empire, where the United States sees itself simultaneously as a guarantor of global order and a bulwark against world government: the “world’s policeman” un…

You’re allowed to use ad hominem when you’re writing a profile feature. Addressing the man is kind of the point :)

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#179

Post by palmotea »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #52

I would have never believed it 10 years ago. I actually think there is a high probability the world will be ended, not by war or natural disaster, but by an honest to god trillionaire super villain. The ultra wealthy are an actual existential threat to humanity. No one can be trusted with that much money and power.

> I would have never believed it 10 years ago. I actually think there is a high probability the world will be ended, not by war or natural disaster, but by an honest to god trillionaire super villain.

IMHO, that's the obvious end-state of AGI: the economy eats the world and a few trillionaires sitting atop AGI armies control the economy, and nearly everyone else becomes powerless, irrelevent, and eventually "ended."

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#180

Post by moogly »

myth_drannon wrote: post #140
jmathai wrote: post #13

Maybe slightly off topic to the article, but I don't really care what Peter Thiel has to say. I do think we need to collectively think about how to not give these people a microphone. It's one thing to have concentrated wealth. It's a very different thing to have concentrated wealth and people's attention. I think that's a much more interesting discussion :).

Where to draw the line? Only the right-wing billionaires? What about other more left-wing like Soros. And what about the influencers with millions of followers (recent Qatari influence campaign comes to mind)? What about Hollywood (again Qataris and their influence campaign, if you notice how some famous actors started to speak on certain topics)

Do you think you're being subtle? Anyway, Israel's genocide is pretty irrelevant to this subthread.
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