Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy • Hacker News Board

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#181

Post by dpark » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 6:06 PM UTC

lowkey_ wrote: post #153

dpark wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s a socialist. Painting all socialism as “evil communism” is reductive and dishonest.

Mamdani has said that (1) they'll open government-run stores, and (2) the government will seize buildings from bad landlords. My family is from a communist country and I can assure you, that is communistic.

I would agree that government run stores falls into the communist playbook. Despite the communism boogie man, though, I don’t think supporting a couple of communist policies strictly makes a person a communist.

Trump sent a bunch of government checks to people during Covid and no one called him communist for this.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#182

Post by AlexandrB » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 6:07 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #157

cbb330 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The soapbox-vs-megaphone analogy falls apart fast. Name me one serious, intellectually honest critic of Thiel—say, Malcolm Harris, Evgeny Morozov, Shoshana Zuboff, Mariana Mazzucato, or even random Substackers with 100k+ followers who’s struggling to be heard because Thiel bought all the megaphones. They all have huge platforms, book deals, TED-level reach, or blue-check amplification. The “undue amplification” crowd…

Thiel owns Vance. That's the undue level of influenece that should be illegal via anti-corruption laws.

"Thiel owns Vance" is obviously shorthand, but is there evidence that Vance is actually under Thiel's control or do they just agree on stuff? I think proving corruption would probably require that Thiel personally/materially benefit from actions that Vance takes in office, not just that he funded Vance's campaign because he agrees with Vance's politics.

Edit: I think there's a much stronger case for some kind of corruption charge against Trump, since he's been using the office to enrich himself.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$Trump

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#183

Post by hearsathought » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 6:08 PM UTC

MiiMe19 wrote: post #175

hearsathought wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why people keep bringing this up. Every ideology has blood on their hands, but communism is nowhere near #1. Try comparing the death tolls/genocides/etc of the capitalist/anti-communist side with the communist side.

Communism and its associated pairings have killed far more than capitalism ever will. Communism only ever exists when paired with an authoritarian government and cannot exist without one. Capitalism can (and does) exist without an authoritarian government. There is a reason why the only people that defend communism have never lived under it.

> Communism and its associated pairings have killed far more than capitalism ever will.

Ever will? The "capitalists" have already killed far more. Did communists wipe out a continent full of native americans? Did communists killed more people than the Nazi germany, the US, british empire, chinese empire, japanese, etc in ww2? Did communists kill more people during both the vietnam wars?

> Communism only ever exists when paired with an authoritarian government and cannot exist without one. Capitalism can (and does) exist without an authoritarian government.

Fine, that's an actual argument that can be discussed. But why lie outright about reality. But pretty sure the natives would have loved to live under their own authoritarian government rather than being wiped out by the capitalist paradise.

> There is a reason why the only people that defend communism have never lived under it.

Must be why you are so good at lying. Because you grew up under communism?

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#184

Post by dpark » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 6:09 PM UTC

baseballdork wrote: post #154

dpark wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In NYC, billionaires are like supervillains. This is absurd to the point of being cartoonish. No one treats billionaires like supervillains. How many billionaires are in supermax prisons right now in New York? > Nobody particularly likes them This is not relevant, regardless of whether it’s true. A ton of people hate Thiel and Trump. Disliking a billionaire doesn’t take away their power.

> This is absurd to the point of being cartoonish. No one treats billionaires like supervillains. How many billionaires are in supermax prisons right now in New York? "Supervillains" are comic book entities who are rarely in prison

Because they escape or cannot be captured. Not because there’s no will to lock them up.

But this is really not my point. Billionaires == Supervillains is not a commonly held view outside some echo chambers.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#185

Post by next_xibalba » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 6:09 PM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #110

next_xibalba wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having listened to a fair amount of Thiel, he tends to be very, very mischaracterized. He relies on metaphor and allegory to describe the world, and is very philosophical and analytical–all of which opens the door to broad interpretation. For instance, his use of the phrase "Antichrist" has been wildly (and deliberately, IMO) misinterpreted by the commentariat and intelligentsia that dominate our sense making institu…

My problem with Thiel is that he's actively working to make the world a horrible place for anybody who isn't in his circle, and has the wealth needed to make inroads towards that end. I am not interested in listening to someone whose philosophy leads him to such behavior.

> he's actively working to make the world a horrible place for anybody who isn't in his circle

Can you be more specific? I see similar claims thrown about him, but they don’t really hold up to scrutiny and often o. The basis of straw men claims.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#186

Post by lowkey_ » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 6:11 PM UTC

numbers_guy wrote: post #165

lowkey_ wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they also do not dehumanize large swaths of the population They dehumanize and kill everyone equally. I think the West (US especially) has a great system of government figured out, and I wouldn't try to say any group attempting to break that is better than another. It's not disingenuous to say that both are authoritarians who kill millions.

Please don't be childish. I have no love for communism and I get that you probably have some personal grudge against communism because of what your family has gone through. But the way you are expressing your hatred of communism is diminishing the evil committed by the NAZIs and the suffering of their victims, and that's just not right. And it's also not winning you any friends and you'd be better served if you showe…

The above commenter's point was actually drawing a distinction between these, and "one-upping" by saying there was a difference, or worse one, out of these extremist ideologies.

I disagreed and said that they are both equally horrid.

Expressing equal hatred for people and systems that kill countless millions through starvation, gulags/concentration camps, and disappearing them, is not childish. I have a ton of solidarity with victims of other evil regimes.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#187

Post by drcongo » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 6:17 PM UTC

tech_ken wrote: post #177

relaxing wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the author assumes a basic familiarity with the subject. FYI Thiel is chairman and co-founder of Palantir.

Okay :) I actually do have a pretty deep familiarity with all of this and that's why I'm criticizing the article. It felt like a rehash of known facts (Thiel is a christian fascist, his company Palantir does innovatively horrible stuff), rather than drawing new connections between those known facts. At a fine-grain I want to know how his ideology underpins the business decisions of his company, I don't need someone t…

I think we (and probably HN in general) aren't the target audience here. Last time I met up with some non-tech friends, Peter Thiel came up a lot in the pub chat - a year ago I'm not sure they would have known who he is. The more people outside of tech who understand what a deranged loon he really is, the better.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#188

Post by myth_drannon » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 6:18 PM UTC

moogly wrote: post #180

myth_drannon wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where to draw the line? Only the right-wing billionaires? What about other more left-wing like Soros. And what about the influencers with millions of followers (recent Qatari influence campaign comes to mind)? What about Hollywood (again Qataris and their influence campaign, if you notice how some famous actors started to speak on certain topics)

Do you think you're being subtle? Anyway, Israel's genocide is pretty irrelevant to this subthread.

Darn, can't hide anything from the "but it's a genocide squad", eh?

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#189

Post by Hikikomori » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 6:19 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #182

bryanlarsen wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thiel owns Vance. That's the undue level of influenece that should be illegal via anti-corruption laws.

"Thiel owns Vance" is obviously shorthand, but is there evidence that Vance is actually under Thiel's control or do they just agree on stuff? I think proving corruption would probably require that Thiel personally/materially benefit from actions that Vance takes in office, not just that he funded Vance's campaign because he agrees with Vance's politics. Edit: I think there's a much stronger case for some kind of corr…

If anything they seem to be friends, with Curtis Yarvin as well, and believes that democracy has run its course. It doesn't really matter if he's just bought by money or if he has bought into the same ideas. Thiel maneuvered Vance into this position using his money and power, and their plans extend far beyond Trump's lifetime.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#190

Post by bryanlarsen » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 6:21 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #182

bryanlarsen wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thiel owns Vance. That's the undue level of influenece that should be illegal via anti-corruption laws.

"Thiel owns Vance" is obviously shorthand, but is there evidence that Vance is actually under Thiel's control or do they just agree on stuff? I think proving corruption would probably require that Thiel personally/materially benefit from actions that Vance takes in office, not just that he funded Vance's campaign because he agrees with Vance's politics. Edit: I think there's a much stronger case for some kind of corr…

> not just that he funded Vance's campaign because he agrees with Vance's politics.

That should be sufficient. We need to start the process of a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United and we need to do as much as we can to enforce existing laws against dark money and enact as much as we can while Citizens United is in effect.