Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

nbcnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 914 posts

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#91

Post by yoyohello13 »

OGEnthusiast wrote: post #88
roamerz wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> but knowing the basics about economics, literature, science, art, math, history is valuable if you want to think critically about the world. Sure if that is relevant to what your goals in life are. I chose to get an education that was tightly coupled with the outcome I wanted.

Agreed. Going to college for the social experience and for generally learning about the world is effectively a luxury good now. For people who just want a path to stable employment, the ROI on college no longer makes sense at all.

I think our society’s obsession with thinking of everything in terms of ROI is destructive.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#92

Post by yoyohello13 »

roamerz wrote: post #45
yoyohello13 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A happy side effect of that university degree was a more rounded education, which now many young adults will be missing out on. Absolutely! So many people bemoan taking general Ed classes, but knowing the basics about economics, literature, science, art, math, history is valuable if you want to think critically about the world.

>> but knowing the basics about economics, literature, science, art, math, history is valuable if you want to think critically about the world. Sure if that is relevant to what your goals in life are. I chose to get an education that was tightly coupled with the outcome I wanted.

That’s kind of my point. Everyone wants to narrowly focus on what will bring them the most value as quickly as possible. Being educated in a wide array of subjects doesn’t seem useful at first, but it actually makes you a better communicator, and citizen.

Also, knowing a little about a lot of things doesn’t preclude you from being an expert in your field.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#93

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Aeolun wrote: post #41
rahimnathwani wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many (most?) people go to college primarily for the piece of paper, not for the educational and social experience.

You can provide the piece of paper at a fraction of the cost too. Nearly all of Europe does, I believe.

> You can provide the piece of paper at a fraction of the cost

This isn’t socially useful.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#94

Post by JumpCrisscross »

yahway wrote: post #66
Newlaptop wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are ~700k h1bs out of ~157 million American jobs. So about 99.6% of jobs in America are held by Americans and 0.4% by h1bs.

Now do the tech industry (high paying American jobs)

> Now do the tech industry

Do you have numbers? If you don’t, the appropriate baseline is population.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#95

Post by xethos »

crossbody wrote: post #65
ahartmetz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it much more subsidized in the US when it was much cheaper, though?

I'd reword the question: "was college paid for via higher income taxes for graduates (and others) or via a more direct approach of student loan taking?". I believe the latter but I don't see the fundamental difference. It's the same student loan but hidden from sight, as it's packaged as higher tax %

> don't see the fundamental difference

You're kidding. The former means all higher net worth individuals to take on both the cost (via taxes) and the benefit (a well-trained workforce for businesses, well-paid, highly taxed contributors for the state, an educated populace of voters, graduates with stable work and in-demand skills). The latter is another example of America's "Everyone for themselves" theme, with students bearing the entire cost of their education, while the graduate, public, state, and businesses reap the benefit.

If the benefits are spread so widely, why shouldn't the cost be?

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#96

Post by parpfish »

wyldfire wrote: post #90

Americans attend college as a (1) rite of passage and to some extent (2) to have access to an influence network of peers and alumni. For elite universities, it's conceivable that #2 provides some real opportunity. But in general #1 dominates the dollars spent on this experience and it's really too bad.

reason (3) is social signaling.

elite schools aren't only desirable because they set you up with big opportunities. they are the way for high-school overachievers to signal to everybody how smart and good they are.

elite schools could probably make bank if they just sold a stamp-of-approval from their admissions committees that just said "you are smart enough to get admitted, but were not lucky enough to win the lottery of being given a seat".

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#98

Post by jswelker »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #37
paulorlando wrote: post #17

Better than asking "is college worth the cost," and getting into ROI calculations per major is asking "could we provide a similar (or better) educational and social experience at a fraction of the cost"? To that the answer is yes.

Many (most?) people go to college primarily for the piece of paper, not for the educational and social experience.

And resultingly, if you do go to college and immerse yourself in the educational experience, you come out with superpowers compared to your peers.

Getting companies to see those superpowers in a hiring pipeline of course is a different story

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#99

Post by alistairSH »

crossbody wrote: post #72
surgical_fire wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what taxes are for. Subsidizing public good. Affordable access to good education is a good outcome from the heavy taxation I pay.

For sure. The main benefit is that it allows smart, hardworking but poor students to get a degree and utilize their brainpower productively for the benefit of all. That's great. Just don't say it's "free" - those who get the education pay back all they got via taxes (which in it's end effect are like paying down a student loan).

Free at point of consumption. Anybody with half a brain understands that’s what’s meant when somebody says “free” education or “free” healthcare.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#100

Post by admissionsguy »

lunar-whitey wrote: post #26
throwaway21321 wrote: post #4

1 in 8 incoming freshmen at UCSD (a leading institution in the states) cant solve "x + 5 = 3 + 7"... Why would I pay 30k a year or whatever it is to get a degree from somewhere like that?

Illiterate incoming freshman are the product of the public middle and high school systems, not the university system. For reference: > Beginning in Fall 2022, the number of students placed into Math 2 began to grow rapidly. Math 2 was first created in 2016, and it was originally designed to be a remedial math course serving a very small number of first-year students (less than 100 students a year or around 1% of the…

> Illiterate incoming freshman are the product of the public middle and high school systems, not the university system.

That doesn't matter for the op's point. Students starting from this base won't get good in 4 years.

Post reply on HN